[nq:2]sounds like they're training them, [nq:2]if both dogs were leashed,, [nq:1]not laying

culprit:

[nq:2]IMO, no one has the right to an assumption of ... that i know my neighbors' dogs all wander off lead.[/nq]
[nq:1]so if a human aggressive dog is let out in their unfenced yard next door, and I'm raking leaves in ... rake leaves (I don't btw - had a crew come do leaf cleanup today!) and assume safety from attacking dogs?[/nq]
sorry, forgot the word dog in there.
seems like a human seeing an aggressive dog would probably get away from said dog, or use rake as weapon. where dog would probably react in a more territorial way.
but who knows. the first time i saw my neighbor's dog, i thought it was a coyote and made my way inside. wasn't a big deal. first time Manu saw him, he was ready to eat him. different reactions, i guess.

-kelly

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lightlady:

[nq:2]sounds like they're training them for fighting :-( we ... a spray bottle of vinegar to ward off attackers [/nq]
[nq:1]sigh ok, first, you don't "train" pit bulls to be the kind of aggressive that this dog was to Orson. ... of kidswho leave non aggressive pits half starved to wander the streets until somekind soul takes them in to rescue.[/nq]
i was speaking of a differnt dog... not the original attacker. most times you see folks doing a big bulk-up of muscles and provoking the aggression tendencies on a dog, they usually have one thing in mind in my part of the world.
[nq:1]second, a spray bottle of vinegar ain't gonna do nuthin' if your dog is attacked by a dog aggressive pit.[/nq]
well it works on rotties in full attack mode. the rot was attacking another dog that was tied in it's yard. the neighbor that called me for help said it wouldn't stay off even after getting hit with bbs and bird-shot, but a quick dose of vinegar in the eyes/nose did make it get off the dog, and face me, then it got another dose. chased it all the way home and then waitied on AC to show up. never saw that rot loose again.
haven't had to try it on a pit yet tho. and i hope i never have to. and if you don't have a cattle-prod on hand, it's nice to know that vinegar in a good spray bottle will help in a pinch. JMHO

lynn

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culprit:

[nq:2]if both dogs were leashed, i'd certainly hope the neighbor ... then maybe it's the neighbor that needs to be PTS.[/nq]
[nq:1]the problem is that the NEIGHBOR'S dog is off leash. Orson never left his yard, and it was not a dog fight - the other dog attacked without provocation. Orson's leash status has NOTHING to do with this.[/nq]
so you missed the content of my post too. let me try again.

if both yards are unfenced, both dogs* should be leashed when outside. that's *both*, in case you missed it again. *both, meaning the aggressor as well. thereby keeping the aggressor out of Cate's yard and avoiding the entire situation. am i making any sense here?
-kelly

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culprit:

[nq:1]well it works on rotties in full attack mode. the rot was attacking another dog that was tied in it's ... chased it all the way home and then waitied on AC to show up. never saw that rot loose again.[/nq]
FYI, Rots were not bred to fight other dogs to the death. pits were. different scenario. best way to break up a pit fight is with a break stick or a taser/cattle prod.
-kelly

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]not laying blame on Cate, simply stating that if there's no fence >betweenyards, both dogs should be leashed. period.[/nq]
Why? Until I got Rocsi, I routinely had my dogs in my yard unleashed. If they started for a neighbor's yard, I called them back; they never went more than a short distance over the property line. It was not an issue even if they did, since they will not harm humans or domestic animals, and the neighbors to either side didn't mind.
I had every right to do so, and it would not have made it my fault if a loose dog had charged onto the property and attacked them.
In fact, it was NOT in any way, shape, or form my fault nor my responsibility when the irresponsible *** two* doors over turned their dogs loose to roam, and they *did come on my property and go after my dog. Having him on a leash would have made NO difference except to make it harder for him to defend himself or get away.
And it's especially ludicrous to say in the case of Orson, who is not young and does not roam off his property. Furthermore, if you read what Cate's posted more carefully, there IS a fence along most of the yard. Besides, even if she'd had Orson on a leash, it wouldn't have changed a thing.

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culprit:

[nq:1]And it's especially ludicrous to say in the case of Orson, who is not young and does not roam off ... along most of the yard. Besides, even if she'd had Orson on a leash, it wouldn't have changed a thing.[/nq]
so if the aggressor were on leash, you don't think that would have changed anything?
yes, yet again, i did say both dogs, but everyone seems to be ignoring that silly little word "both".
-kelly

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Melinda Shore:

[nq:1]yes, yet again, i did say both dogs, but everyone seems to be ignoring that silly little word "both".[/nq]
The word "both" encompasses the requirement that Orson be on leash in his owner's yard, and that's the part that's ridiculous. Now, it may be prudent to have Orson on leash (although I'll agree with Sarah about that being far from sufficient to protect him - earlier I posted about my friend's on-leash dachshund who was attacked and badly injured by two on-leash Akitas), but that's because there's an uncontrolled aggressive dog in the neighborhood. That is to say, the reason why it might be prudent to leash your own dog in your own yard is that somebody else is basically being criminally negligent.
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around a libertarian insisting that someone who's not causing problems for anybody else doesn't have the right to use their own property.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Don't think you are going to conceal faults by concealing evidence that they ever existed. Dwight D Eisenhower

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]why is it no one can read the word "both" in my last post?[/nq]
I read it just fine; in fact, it's the idea that Orson should have been on a leash that's causing both Janet and myself to disagree with you. Again, as stated in other posts, there is NO reason that "both" dogs should have been on leash in the specific situation, nor in the general. Cate does not need a leash to keep Orson in her yard, and having a leash on him would not have prevented the other dog - nor ANY loose dog - from entering Cate's yard and attacking him.
In general, there's no necessity nor legal requirement to leash your dog on your own property, regardless of the fencing status, as long as the dog doesn't leave the property and attack humans or domestic animals. And it will NOT prevent loose dogs or wildlife from attacking the dog.

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]am i making any sense here?[/nq]
No, because "both" includes Orson, and again: leashing Orson - or any other non-aggressive, verbally controllable dog - on his own property is immaterial.

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RE: A lesson and a poll page 16

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