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RE: Cat food - dry/wet (this has probably been discussed a thousand times already) page 6This is a discussion thread · 55 replies Alison Perera: [nq:2]If/when I get the fellas switched their staples will include ... see them go through a chicken leg like buttah.  [/nq][nq:1]My cats do get quail and rock cornish game hens. For some odd reason they aren't crazy about chicken. But I do feed them the whole bird so they eat the bones too. It's amazing, isn't it, how easily they can chew through those things?[/nq] So you find that gizzards provide more chewing exercise and teeth cleaning than whole birds? That's interesting. [nq:2]A different meat every few days...do you grind, or do ... "essential things"? What meats do you include in that rotation?[/nq] [nq:1]No, I don't have a grinder yet, although I'd like to get one. I use things like quail, cornish hens, ... balance, although with fresh foods you don't have to supplement to the extent that is done in commercial cooked food.[/nq] You have trouble sourcing chicken necks but you can find meaty ostrich bones? I'm jealous. Why, though, do you find it necessary to "balance" and "supplement" a diet of meaty bones and organs? If cats weren't meant to thrive on the carcasses of their prey, and if they needed people to puree their carrots and kale tens of thousands of years ago, they wouldn't be here purring on our laps.  If your guys are doing well on large meaty bones and whole carcasses, why "backtrack" to grinding? [nq:2]I understand if you don't want to discuss diet here I've ... curious to know what kinds of diet plans people follow.[/nq] [nq:1]LOL, you are right. But I believe what I feed my cats is the best diet for them, so I ... interested, you can email me and I can send you a link to a great group for the raw diet.[/nq] Thanks, but I suspect I know the group you belong to due to your singling out squash separately from other veggies. Check out the Yahoo! group rawfeeding, they have a guest member right now, a Dr. Johan Joubert who is a South African veterinary periodontist practicing in the UK. He has an awesome amount of knowledge, and he's doing an amazing job of answering questions from all comers. A lot of cat questions have been asked and answered in the last day or so. Regards, Alison
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PawsForThought: I don't know if they provide more exercise than bones per se, but it seems because of the tough membrane that gizzards have, it's harder for them to chew.[nq:1]You have trouble sourcing chicken necks but you can find meaty ostrich bones? I'm jealous.[/nq]No, no I feed ostrich chunked or ground. It's only quail and cornish hens that I feed them whole. [nq:1]Why, though, do you find it necessary to "balance" and "supplement" a diet of meaty bones and organs? If cats ... puree their carrots and kale tens of thousands of years ago, they wouldn't be here purring on our laps. [/nq]I only supplement when I feed ground meat, not when they get whole food. I think this article explains it probably much better than I'm doing, LOL: http://www.holisticat.com/rawdiet.html [nq:1]If your guys are doing well on large meaty bones and whole carcasses, why "backtrack" to grinding?[/nq] Good point. But I wanted one mostly to try chicken and turkey. My boy will eat chicken bones, but not my girl. But if you put a quail in front of her, she goes crazy for it. [nq:1]Check out the Yahoo! group rawfeeding, they have a guest member right now, a Dr. Johan Joubert who is a ... questions from all comers. A lot of cat questions have been asked and answered in the last day or so.[/nq] Thanks, Alison. I'll definitely check it out for sure. I think I joined that group last week because the news about the doctor was cross-posted. I'm glad to hear they're talking about cats too. Some of the raw feeding groups tend to be mostly about feeding dogs. Lauren See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
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Phil P.: [nq:2]You're sure about that, huh? 3, 5.5 oz cans ... lb (5.45 kg) cat has a DER of 245 -[/nq]327.kcals. [nq:2]Thus the cat's daily water requirement is about 245 - ... every three days". Gee, how about that! http://maxshouse.com/feline nutrition.htm#Water Requirements[/nq] [nq:1]Who's woodwork did these bozos creep out of, Phil? Geez - it seems we have a myriad of them lately...[/nq] I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but after reading a few of his posts, I think you're right! LOL! Phil
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Philip ®: In Handy formulae you have. I did say Rusty goes thru a quart of water every three days. That would be a couple ounces short of your calculations. This mostly dry food (he gets one 5.5 ounce can of tuna per week). So ... are we disagreeing over a couple of ounces of water? Tell you what happens where the rubber meets the road. When I have supplied an entirely canned food diet, the cat bolts his food down and then ... regurgitates about one meal out of five. So that is water he did NOT get. Right? Thank you. In spite of an experiment with all canned food, he still drank quite a bit of water. So you formula under the best of conditions (no regurgitation) falls short. Is there room for individual variance? ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain"
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Phil P.: [nq:1]Handy formulae you have. I did say Rusty goes thru a quart of water every three days. That would be a couple ounces short of your calculations.[/nq]"There isn't that much water in 3 small cans (5.5 oz) of Friskies wet food, which is about what he would consume if canned were his total diet" Did you forget that part? I simply corrected your erroneous conclusion.
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Alison Perera: [nq:2]Why, though, do you find it necessary to "balance" and ... ago, they wouldn't be here purring on our laps. [/nq][nq:1]I only supplement when I feed ground meat, not when they get whole food. I think this article explains it probably much better than I'm doing, LOL: http://www.holisticat.com/rawdiet.html[/nq] "Some people prefer to let nature's balance take care of itself by simply grinding whole chickens and such, bones and all. If you have a manual or electric grinder equipped to handle bones, this is ideal. You should still consider your cat's requirements for organ meats such as liver, kidneys, hearts and gizzards. Include veggies, some cooked grains if you choose to feed them, eggs, and oil if you feed lean meats. " If you feed to replicate whole prey, giving large pieces of meat on the bone, you'll get balance no need to grind. Veggies? "Veggies should be quite finely pulped or grated to help your cat digest them better." Who's pulping the feral cat's veggies? Why include eggs? A fine foodstuff, but not necessary. Oil if you feed lean meats? Cats don't process vegetable oils well, why not feed fattier meats some days to even it out? Did you read the study where they fed ground whole rabbits to cats, who developed taurine deficiency and other nutritional disorders? Two possible reasons that have been suggested are: without the ripping and gnawing action to "wake up" the digestive system, the food was not assimilated well. Or, by not allowing the cats to pick and choose as their cravings dictated, they eliminated a natural method that the animals might have to select the parts that met their needs. [nq:2]If your guys are doing well on large meaty bones and whole carcasses, why "backtrack" to grinding?[/nq] [nq:1]Good point. But I wanted one mostly to try chicken and turkey. My boy will eat chicken bones, but not my girl. But if you put a quail in front of her, she goes crazy for it.[/nq] Awesome. If she's getting...I forget...quail, game hen, buffalo, ostrich, venison...why bother with chicken? Let your boy have it. Check out hare-today.com for rabbit, including ground mixes.[nq:2]Check out the Yahoo! group rawfeeding, they have a guest ... been asked and answered in the last day or so.[/nq] [nq:1]Thanks, Alison. I'll definitely check it out for sure. I think I joined that group last week because the news ... to hear they're talking about cats too. Some of the raw feeding groups tend to be mostly about feeding dogs.[/nq] The rawfeeding group discussions often center on dogs, but since they consider the dog and cat both to be carnivores that thrive on the nearest replica of whole carcasses we can manage, the dog-feeding advice applies to cats too just feed appropriately sized pieces. -Alison in OH
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PawsForThought: Typically, if a cat consumes the stomach contents, it would be the plant material consumed by the prey, and can be about 5 to 10% of the diet. I don't use vegetable oils, but rather whole body fish oils, on the recommendation of my veterinarian. I find my cats do better when they have this supplement. Eggs is a very nutritious food and contains lots of important vitamins. They don't get eggs every day.[nq:1]Did you read the study where they fed ground whole rabbits to cats, who developed taurine deficiency and other nutritional ... cravings dictated, they eliminated a natural method that the animals might have to select the parts that met their needs.[/nq] Yep, that study has been hashed about a bit by raw feeders on some of the lists, and the conclusion reached if I recall correctly was that rabbit is a low taurine meat. Personally, I tried rabbit once with my cats and they didn't like it. [nq:1]Awesome. If she's getting...I forget...quail, game hen, buffalo, ostrich, venison...why bother with chicken?[/nq]Price, LOL. Chicken is a lot cheaper than the cornish hens I've found. They both do like chicken hearts though. Thanks again. I was reading some of the posts last night. You're right, he is really awesome! Lauren See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
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Philip ®: In [nq:2]Handy formulae you have. I did say Rusty goes thru ... That would be a couple ounces short of your calculations.[/nq] [nq:1]"There isn't that much water in 3 small cans (5.5 oz) of Friskies wet food, which is about what he would consume if canned were his total diet"[/nq] But for the problem that when I tried him on a straight canned food diet, substantial regurgitation resulted every few days, irrespective of food brand. Regurgitation = lost water. Or were you taught differently in school? ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain"
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Phil P.: [nq:2]"There isn't that much water in 3 small cans (5.5 ... what he would consume if canned were his total diet"[/nq][nq:1]But for the problem that when I tried him on a straight canned food diet, substantial regurgitation resulted every few days, irrespective of food brand.[/nq] How did you introduce the diet... Einstein?
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