[nq:1]I think people often forget, [nq:2]Probably the same way you, [nq:1]Aim higher,

sighthounds & siberians:

[nq:2]Aw, c'mon, I was only kidding, honest![/nq]
[nq:1]I plonked you after your last post. Don't try to weasel out or I'll plonk you again![/nq]
Okay, but I think maybe your plonker's borken.
Mustang Sally
Furbabies! Furbabies! Furbabies! Furbabies!

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Lynne:

[nq:2]I've quoted you as a courtesy.[/nq]
[nq:1]Plonk![/nq]
I'll see your plonk and raise you a HTH!

Lynne
/

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Paula:

[nq:2]Probably the same way you would know that an Aussie isn't by its "appearance." HTH![/nq]
[nq:1]I suspect I'd decide that by watching the dog work, or at the least talking to knowledgable people who have ... traits, your chances of getting them are lower, and your chances of him passing them on are even less. HTH![/nq]
And that's where people get all over the white mini schnauzer breeder. If you are breeding for color and you have to breed pretty exclusively for color in something like white mini schnauzers, from what I gather, your chances of getting other traits that are more important to the health and temperament of the dog are lower. Don't confuse that distaste for breeding for color alone and the assumption that it is going to shortchange the dogs on other traits that are more important to the breed as well as the dog, for being conformation snobs. There are many here who are disgusted with what show breeding has done to some breeds. It seems that has more to do with judging differently than the breed is described than it does with breed descriptions.
I am the furthest from a conformation snob you'll find. I care about healthy and stable dogs pretty much exclusively. I see great benefit in breed traits carrying forward because everyone I know wants a dog for a specific purpose. Yours may be the more recognizable working trait, but even family pet purpose means a specific set of traits will be more desirable to the family choosing the dog. There is something to be said for being able to narrow the search and feel that your chances of getting the traits you are looking for are much higher with certain breeds.

If you just want good looking, go find a cute dog, mutt or purebred, and take your chances on traits and temperament if you're willing to crapshoot. Breed conformation has to do with those who don't want to crapshoot and who love a breed for what it is. Turning it into something else because the color is more important to you than what the dog is all about so inner traits can fall by the wayside is not a good thing, in my mind. I'm not going to say that in this free country people can't do that if they choose, but I'm not going to advise anyone to pay tons of money for a dog whose only known quality is that it has a white schnauzer coat unless they really don't care what its temperament or genetic health is like.

For me, I'll go for healthy long lives and good temperaments any day. I appreciate those breeders, whether inside or outside AKC and whether in conformation or working lines, who care more about the big picture than the one part of the picture that is currently trendy.

Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

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Paula:

[nq:1]I think people often forget that dogs are animals. There is someone on the Dane board who is distraught that ... to hunt and kill stuff is probably just about as safe as any dog is going to get around kids.[/nq]
Well, yeah, I've noticed that since I've discovered that I really like hamburgers and steak, I have a hard time not killing my kids just to see what they taste like! Bunnies are natural prey/dinner for dogs, humans are not, even for dogs in the wild. Certainly pack members are not for domesticated dogs, for crying out loud. Dogs may not have the cognitive skills of humans, but I think they can distinguish rabbits from human children.

Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

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Shelly:

[nq:1]Aim higher, says Khan. If there is a horse or a bull around, he'd take it.[/nq]
Horses do not exist, says Harriet. From a distance, they look like large dogs, but when you get closer to them, they turn invisible.

I suspect the same would hold true for bulls.

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
We can't all, and some just don't. That's all there is to it. A.A. Milne

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Judy:

[nq:1]Well, yeah, I've noticed that since I've discovered that I really like hamburgers and steak, I have a hard time not killing my kids just to see what they taste like![/nq]
Or at least your own cow.
There used to be (probably still is) a rule in the beagle community that you never feed your dogs venison because it would make them chase deer.

DH's response to this was that he had a beagle who ate a lot of beef and yet was afraid of cows. (Perhaps the dog thought the cows KNEW?)

My response was that we should use this wonderful knowledge. Feed your beagles rabbit! Feed your coonhounds raccoon!
It's scary sometimes what "conventional wisdom" really means!

Judy

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Mary Healey:

[nq:1]No, my "point" was that there are incredibly few Miniature Schnauzers in the data base. And that may not be because all Miniature Schnauzer breeders are irresponsible, but simply that OFA isn't that useful for them.[/nq]
Diane Blackman has made the same (good) point several times in these waters. Different breeds tend to develop different "cultures" wrt breeding practices. Some breeds have a culture that expects extensive testing and disclosure of results. Some test but may not disclose. Others don't test, even when there's a known, testable problem.
Breeds where testing is uncommon aren't necessarily healthier than tested breeds.
[nq:1]I don't see where they register for urinary disease. PRA is DXed by an ACVO vet and you get absolutely no more information by listing it with OFA.[/nq]
You may not get more information about your own dog, but you sure as hell can get more information on your dog's tested relatives. Disclosure is part and parcel of testing, as far as I'm concerned. Resources like the searchable databases OFA makes available are an ENORMOUS step forward, if breeders and owners are smart enough to take advantage of it.

I'm truly fortunate in that my breed of choice also tends towards a "test and disclose" culture in line with my own opinions, and I do what little I can as a pet owner to encourage this.

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Suja:

[nq:1]Horses do not exist, says Harriet. From a distance, they look like large dogs, but when you get closer to them, they turn invisible. I suspect the same would hold true for bulls.[/nq]
So she does have something resembling common sense, then. Unfortunately, it's sadly lacking in the furball.
Suja

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Shelly:

[nq:1]So she does have something resembling common sense, then.[/nq]
She has her moments.
[nq:1]Unfortunately, it's sadly lacking in the furball.[/nq]
Yes, but one has to admire his lofty goals.

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
I really do live for the future, because when I'm eating a box of candy, I can't wait to taste the last piece.
Andy Warhol

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RE: "Don't touch my bone" page 24

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