[nq:1]Exactly.[/nq] Dont "exactly" me at, [nq:1]And yet, Sylvia Hammarstrom hasn't, [nq:1]So, have

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shelly:

[nq:1]So, have you seen information that white Schnauzers have more temperament problems?[/nq]
Temperament is more than lack of "problems."
[nq:1]How do you know that she's not considering temperament (and structure and a number of other factors) along with color? And she's not just breeding whites. She specializes in whites and black.[/nq]
I don't. I don't have a clue what breeder you're talking about, and it's not my breed, so I'm not really interested in the specifics. The discussion started between Judy and I, discussing white Miniature Schnauzers. You popped in with a reference to what you presumably think is a responsible breeder who is breeding specifically for whites. You haven't offered any other information as to why you would think she's responsible, beyond the nebulous claim that she's breeding to the FCI standard and that she's bred successful conformation dogs. None of that really tells us anything about whether or not she's a responsible breeder, though.
[nq:1]And I don't think she needs to breed a non-standard (in the US) color to get her price.[/nq]
Gah. Kimbertal has a reputation, too, and gets a pretty penny for their dogs.
[nq:1]Her reputation gets that. So, I don't really know her, or how responsible she is.[/nq]
So why did you bring her up?

Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

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shelly:

[nq:1]I love the notion that you can just change the dog's appearance in isolation from other characteristics.[/nq]
The subject really got my attention when I first read about Dr. Cattanach's natural bob-tail Boxer breeding experiment (say that 10 times fast). The guy is a geneticist, and presumably is clueful, but still, I have to wonder how using Pembrokes has affected the temperaments of the Boxers he's bred.

Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

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Melinda Shore:

[nq:1]Exactly.[/nq]
Dont "exactly" me at the same time that you're giving the thumbs up to breeding for rare colors. Unless, of course, you're not interested in breeding to type - an odd thing in someone who seems, among her multitudinous multitude of self-regard, to regard herself as a breed enthusiast. Perhaps that should be "breeding enthusiast," eh?
My impression of you from your blessedly brief time here is that you're more interesting in saying words that you think sound right than you are in actually being right, an accidental consequence of which is that when you get into arguments you frequently untether words from meaning, as you do here. Saying the right stuff is not the same as meaning the right stuff; my favorite example of this is the guy who was quite adamant that he was all about improving the working qualities of the breed (Siberian Husky) even as he allowed his unneutered cryptorchid male to breed its full sister. It's tough to get down the trail pulling a moderate load at moderate speed when your dogs are keeling over due to seizures from time to time.
When your words and meaning part company I'm going to tend to consider the meaning authoritative.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

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Melinda Shore:

[nq:1]And yet, Sylvia Hammarstrom hasn't been busted for stupidly killing her dogs.[/nq]
Neither was Athena, until she was.
[nq:1]Do you suspect that all breeders are just alike? Or just all larger kennels?[/nq]
No, and the things that distinguish them might happen to include breeding for funky colors to meet market demand.
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

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shelly:

[nq:1]Referring to it in what way?[/nq]
Referring to it in the sense that breeding for one trait in this case white dogs can have profound and unintended effects on other traits. Responsible breeding is a balancing act, and it cannot be accomplished successfully by concentrating on a single trait.
[nq:1]Myself, I like th e old-style smart and pushy, moderately protective and somewhat reactive working bred Aussie (frequently with little white trim) but i don't kid myself that they are the best fit for most homes.[/nq]
If someone wants a dog with a different temperament from an Aussie or a Miniature Schnauzer or a Boxer, then they should maybe consider getting not getting a dog from one of those breeds. There are plenty of breeds and mutts to choose from, so why change something fundamental and important about a breed for the sole purpose of pleasing someone's granny?

Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

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Melinda Shore:

[nq:1]Wouldn't be the first time someone had a dream of getting a color or breed recognized.[/nq]
Yeah, and those have all been upstanding representatives of the dog breeding community.
It may very well be the case that this is an otherwise largely reasonable breeder who's doing this one kind of *** thing. Good people make lousy decisions all the time. It may also be the case that her website isn't accurately representing what she's actually doing (the kennel producing the fastest Siberians in the midwest has a page on their website that suggests that they're breeding to produce black dogs, even though they don't breed for color at all). It may even be the case that she's trying to produce white dogs while being very attentive to otherwise maintaining breed type. But if she's just breeding white Schnauzers primarily because there's a market, that's not good.
And while heaven knows that claiming that since you like this woman she's not screwing up her breeding practices isn't the only really idiotic argument you've presented here, it's very possibly the idiotickest.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

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RE: "Don't touch my bone" page 8

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