[nq:1]wearing funny hats[/nq] ! Catherine, [nq:2]I dont like meekness- I, [nq:2]Yup -

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ceb:

[nq:2]I dont like meekness- I want a confident obedient dog. I think its possible.[/nq]
[nq:1]submission needn't be had at the expense of confidence. in fact, a clear understanding of one's place in the pack and of what is expected of one are key ingredients for having a confident dog.[/nq]
This is the part where I jump in and say that's what happened with Zoe. She really gained in confidence once I clearly established myself as the leader. She needed there to be a leader, and seemed to want the post herself, but was actually uneasy and nervous in that role.

Of course, she's still the leader of the dogs. That's because she is the smaller dog. Emotion: smile

Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Rosalie the calico

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ceb:

[nq:2]Yup - that's what dog ownership needs to be, but ... her(?) equals. Wonder is s/he sleeps in the garage too?[/nq]
[nq:1]I hope I don't live to be 100, but if I do, I still won't understand how people can think ... they are "kinder" than people who expect their dogs to do what they ask. Is that creative thinking or something?[/nq]
Well, I used to be somewhat this way I just didn't want to be bossy, as you may remember. It took education/convincing to make me see that the dogs would be happier if I were quite firmly in charge.

I have always had a big anthropomorphic/peaceable kingdom streak and living with cats for 20 years reinforced those views. I didn't realize that I would need to seriously change my own behavior in order to live peaceably with dogs. Once I saw that, I quickly shaped up. And while I'm still the leader, I can wear the mantle very lightly these days I don't have to be as tough as I needed to be at first.

Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Rosalie the calico

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ceb:

[nq:1]wearing funny hats[/nq]
!

Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Rosalie the calico

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Jack \The Unpalatable Barbarian\ Morrison:

[nq:1]I have always had a big anthropomorphic/peaceable kingdom streak and living with cats for 20 years reinforced those views. I didn't realize that I would need to seriously change my own behavior in order to live peaceably with dogs.[/nq]
I noticed that our little lotus-child from down under also has cats.

I hope she's able to make the transition to dogs, but I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it, either.
Dogs ain't cats, and cats ain't dogs.
Dogs are from Mars. Cats are from Venus.
Word.

Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
Are women really necessary? Emotion: big smile

http://techcentralstation.com/112705A.html
Beware! This man may be teaching your children:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20325

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chris jung:

[nq:2]You have attached a whole bunch of meanings to the ... a litany of reasons why, from their perspective, they shouldn't.[/nq]
(post re arranged)
[nq:1]I guess Matt that for me submission is an emotive term. I dont like meekness- I want a confident obedient dog. I think its possible. RRR[/nq]
Huh, I think you're getting hung up on words and attaching too much baggage to them. Submit - for example -it doesn't have to be a loaded term. Today, at work, I submitted a voucher form to accounting but I didn't feel terribly meek about it.
So far in my adult life I've had five collies and two came to me second hand as adults. IMO, obedience training is a great thing in so many ways - for dogs that I've had since they were puppies and especially for second hand dogs. I've found that working together increases the dog's confidence, boldness and bonding to the owner. In fact, I've found that the more I train my dogs, the MORE confident & fearless they become. No broken spirits here. When my gang see me get out the training stuff, they get wildly excited. You seem to think of obedience training as all about submission but Pablo and Lucy see it as a chance to use their brains. If they could talk I think they would tell you that it's really fun to learn stuff.

Anyway, sorry for such a quickly written scribble, I hope it makes sense.

Chris and her smoothies,
Pablo and Lucy

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]I hope I don't live to be 100, but if I do, I still won't understand how people can think that requiring one's dog to do what one asks equals not loving them.[/nq]
Time to trot out the anecdote about my neighbor's dog playing in traffic - literally.
Some years ago, when Brenin was young, we went out for a walk one day and found my neighbor up the block trying to coax her dog out of the middle of the street, where he was bouncing about having a high old time despite the fact that cars kept slamming on their brakes to avoid him. Crispin ran over to sniff Brenin, and I slipped a hand into his collar and walked him over to his owner (this was when he, too, was young, and hadn't yet become aggressive). On handing him over, I asked her - nicely - if she'd ever thought of taking him to an obedience class.
"Oh, but they're MEAN to them in those classes!!" quoth she.

And letting your dog play in the street is KIND??

Her brand of "kindness", btw, has resulted in the dog being universally loathed in the neighborhood, in a pregnant woman getting bitten, and in Animal Control fining her several times and giving her notice that the next time they recieve a complaint, the dog will be siezed and put down.

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]I could never have a dog that would chase or kill something.[/nq]
Then why, in the name of the Deity, do you own one Rhodesian Ridgeback, and even more so, why are you taking on a RR who has lived entirely out of doors??
You do know what your dogs were bred to do, right?
[nq:1]I dont play tug either- probably because I dont like to encourage aggression- even if its all in good fun. One day her idea of good funmight not mesh with mine.[/nq]
Nonsense. Tug games, if done correctly, actually DECREASE the likelihood that the dog will bite. The only reason to refrain from using tug (given that you know how to use it correctly) is if your dog is a working retriever.

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]It means the dog understands that and trusts you to do so, accepting >hisposition as the follower. Pain has absolutely ... choose to lead is up >to you, but you cannot NOT lead and have an effective relationship with your dog.[/nq]
And even more important to the OP's situation - especially given that s/he's planning to keep two females in the same household - being a strong pack leader is the most effective way to guarantee that your dogs will get along with EACH OTHER.
I was musing about that earlier, because I was going through some pictures I shot this weekend up at my S.O.'s place - when I'm there, we have a blended pack of two male and three female dogs.
Two of those female dogs (Morag and Lacey) are naturally bossy/dominant herding breed mixes with tendencies to resource guarding, and the third is a Jack Russell Terrier. In many households, that would be a recipe for disaster... yet we have no problem moving my three dogs in and out of his house, nor his dog in and out of mine, because both of us are natural pack leaders.
The picture that sparked the musing, BTW, is of Morag cuddled in his arms, with Lacey curled up with her head pillowed on Morag's side and her paw draped over Morag's so that it touches Bob's hand. What makes that significant is that Bob's attention is very much one of the "resources" both of them will choose to guard - if we allowed them to. Since it's not allowed, they found a comprimise.
IMO and IME, "peaceable realms" like that only happen when there's strong leadership.

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RE: Looking for constructive advice page 5

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