[nq:1]Do you think it's something, [nq:1]I do attribute no fighting, [nq:1]But how

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Leah Roberts:

[nq:1]My dogs have a pretty rough play style which often involves growling, so when Zoe came over and growled at ... was a tough way to learn! Do you limit rough play or other behavior that I should be limiting too?[/nq]
If rough play leads to a fight, then YES - limit it. You may at some point be able to allow it again (or not), but I'd start by interrupting them well before the play escalates to "rough."

Growling is not anywhere near as important a signal as the body language during the growl. In fact, I like Dr. Dunbar's suggestion that you "turn off the sound" when watching dogs interact. My guess is that Zoe was standing still and staring at Queenie.

That's the first thing I would be looking for - eye contact. Whenever the two are together, I would watch carefully for any extended eye contact between the two and distract them, rewarding them for changing their focus to me.
This is a pretty good article on dog aggression:
http://www.doggiedoor.com/aggressi.shtml
Recommended reading list:
"Calming Signals" by Turid Rugaas (first on the list for a reason :} - invaluable for learning a dog's subtle body language signals)

"Fight" by Jean Donaldson (also "Mine" and "Dogs are From Neptune")

"Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons

Leah Roberts, Family Dog Trainer
It's A Dog's World
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html Get Healthy, Build Your Immune System, Lose Weight http://re-vita.net/dfrntdrums

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Rocky:

[nq:1]Yup - those pushy young Goldens! We had a 4 month old pup here for the weekend once. Lucy wanted ... was NOT acceptable, and she never did move off the couch! I redirected the bouncy guy and that was that.[/nq]
It wasn't the Golden bouncyness that annoyed Friday - it was the sexual harrassment. This unneutered one year old would follow Friday around the house air humping. Until Friday filed his cease and desist order, the GR wouldn't give Friday any peace at all. Everything's fine now.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

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Janet B:

[nq:1]Do you think it's something you learn over time? I really have been trying to educate myself...[/nq]
I think you get better at hearing subtle differences in sound and intent. I do attribute no fighting to my leadership, but also my ability to have eyes and ears in the back of my head.

years ago, at the dog park, I was always amazed at the people who had no clue a fight was about to break out, while I had already called my dog to my side.
It's something that is learned by experience, not reading, so the more you get out there and do, the more you'll learn! Maybe hang out at some play sessions at a park, a class, a daycare - watching closely is very educational.
Franklin has bitten 2 dogs. Both of those dogs were physically assaulting him and stronger than him (maybe not - build bigger at least). Both times, he grabbed their face to defend himself, and held on until I released him and had grabbed the other dog as well. No fight, but a bite and hold. Would I rather he hadn't felt the need to do that? You bet, but his technique was appropriate in a lot of ways, and his release when told, immediate.

Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

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Rocky:

[nq:1]But how have you managed this? Do you think it's largely a matter of reading the dogs' body language and stopping things before they start? Or do you attribute it more to your leadership style? Or what?[/nq]
With my own dogs, it's because I know them very well. So, I guess it's leadership style in that situation.
With dogs that aren't my own, it's body language. As with most people, I know my dogs better than I know others', so when a visiting dog comes into my house, I watch how Friday (who reads Dog well) reacts to him. This doesn't work with Rocky who has no sense of personal space - his or another dog's.

Mostly, it's experience that allows me to be preventative and avoid or redirect potential ugly situation. Right now, everthing I do is dog-related - walking in off-leash parks; competing in, teaching, and judging agility; and running a dog daycare - so I meet and spend time with a lot of dogs.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

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ceb:

[nq:1]I do attribute no fighting to my leadership, but also my ability to have eyes and ears in the back of my head.[/nq]
Uh oh. I lack this. I'm a bit more scattered.
[nq:1]years ago, at the dog park, I was always amazed at the people who had no clue a fight was about to break out, while I had already called my dog to my side.[/nq]
When meeting strange dogs, I have a lot of trouble distinguishing between times when the dogs are checking each other out and everything is going to be fine and times when the dogs are checking each other out and everything is about to go to hell. Of course I'm always right there so I can get my dogs out quickly if need be.
Especially with Zoe, there's always a tense moment even right before she starts racing around playfully with someone. That tense moment seems like it could go either way I really haven't been able to tell from her much difference although it seems to me it takes a bit longer for things to go bad than it does for instant playmates so if she's still standing there after a few seconds, I will assume she doesn't like that dog and pull her out.
Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the retriever mix

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Janet B:

[nq:1]I don't mean that I stand by and let the dogs fight it out. I also don't allow it. But the way they learn that it's not allowed is by my interference when it starts to happen.[/nq]
Not necessarily. It doesn't even dawn on them. My first shelter adoptee attacked my resident dog the first day home. Attacked is too big a word, since she was grabbed and thrown to the ground so fast (by me) her head swam. Resident dog stayed calm. No FIGHT - not just no "fighting it out".
[nq:1]And in any dynamic with two or more dogs, it's a good chance that at some point one dog will *** another off.[/nq]
Lucy used to sit on Franklin when he was a puppy. Since I get dogs one at a time, and they are trained and I trust them fully, I'd only worry about a new dog or visiting dog, and they learn it so fast or never try the slightest little thing. It's like when I work a client's dog. They know that I'm in charge from the first moment.
[nq:1]I would like to present my dogs with a list of Household Rules when they join my family, stating that fighting is never allowed, and be assured that they won't break the rules. But it doesn't work that way.[/nq]
There has never been a dog fight in my house. Ever. And never will be.
[nq:1]Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but the implication in your statement is that there is a leadership problem ... it. But being emotional creatures with free will, even in the most disciplined homes dogs will sometimes break the rules.[/nq]
Strong leadership is an amazing thing. I'm sure that Sarah is a strong leader, but she also has some other family dynamics which may affect that.

Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

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diddy:

in thread Janet B (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
[nq:2]I don't mean that I stand by and let the ... allowed is by my interference when it starts to happen.[/nq]
[nq:1]Not necessarily. It doesn't even dawn on them. My first shelter adoptee attacked my resident dog the first day home. ... so fast (by me) her head swam. Resident dog stayed calm. No FIGHT - not just no "fighting it out".[/nq]
EXACTLY. If I see anything that looks like unfriendly posturing, there is intervention. It's just NOT allowed. Resident dogs, it wouldn't occur to them. Visiting dogs find out really fast. Resident dogs, if attacked, stand there passively, If they did anything else,, they know they are dealing with me when it's over.. I suspect, because they just don't think about it. I'm going to handle it.
[nq:1]Lucy used to sit on Franklin when he was a puppy.Danny used to sit on any dog that looked like a rumble was about to happen.[/nq]
Now "I" sit on them. And that's a MUCH bigger deal.
[nq:1]There has never been a dog fight in my house. Ever. And never will be.[/nq]
Here either. And never will be.

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diannes:

[nq:1]Not necessarily. It doesn't even dawn on them. My first shelter adoptee attacked my resident dog the first day home. ... so fast (by me) her head swam. Resident dog stayed calm. No FIGHT - not just no "fighting it out".[/nq]
Bingo. That reminds me of the time I picked up an adult, intact Husky-X dog up off the street. During the first meal he ate in my house, one of my own dogs happened to walk behind him and he turned and snarked at my dog. Before he knew what happened I'd grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and said in my best Voice of God "Don't you EVER do that again, you little jerk." He ended up staying with me about a week until his owner responded to the "found dog" posters I'd put up, and he never again challenged my dogs or me.
In no way could this be considered a fight because my own dog continued walking on by and didn't respond to the stray's challenge at all. The issue was that this dog was simply displaying unacceptable behavior that in his case was easily extinguished.
Dianne

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ceb:

[nq:1]Strong leadership is an amazing thing.[/nq]
Strong leadership is great, but sometimes when I hear about it I feel like, in order to get good behavior from my dogs, I need to be a completely different sort of person I feel like I have to be this tough person that I just don't want to be all the time. Can't us peaceful, semi-wimpy types have non-fighting dogs too? (I am not implying that others here are not peaceful!) I mean, I know the dogs need training (which I provide) and consistency (which I provide). I do behave in a leaderly way when it occurs to me, which is more often than it did, say, when I had only cats.
Because I let the cats be the boss of me and no harm came of it. Emotion: smile

I understand and accept that dogs need more structure and guidance than cats do, and I love my dogs and have a good relationship with them (especially Zoe, because I've known her longer and Queenie is still so new to us).
I don't know, I guess I just worry when I hear this leadership talk, because it makes me think I need to change who I am rather than simply how I act? Does this make sense to anyone?
Btw, the cat's still the boss (of all of us).
Catherine
& Zoe & Queenie
& Rosalie the real queen

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RE: My brother's dog page 8

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