WebTV-Mail-11697-2480 I read more then, [nq:1]Did you look at our, Just chiming

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ginna 2001:

WebTV-Mail-11697-2480
I read more then half of the postings. I really can't read them all right now, but would like to suggest something.
I'm right now looking for a shelter in my area to volunteer some time. I had to do a search on the web to find one in my area. I recently seen a "man on the street" survey asking passerby's,
"Do you know where your local animal shelter is?" Out of 15 people asked the score was 0 to 15. Not one of them knew.

I think more public awareness needs to be out there. Maybe flyers in the mail.
Also if grocery stores can give organizations (girl scouts, schools, etc) a revenue from shoppers, who promoted the organization on certain days that they shopped, why can't pet stores do the same and give all proceeds to the local shelter?
More fund raising for Animal Shelters are needed. I never see a "buy one get one free" at a pet store.
On your income tax form the question is asked, "Do you want to donate a $1.00 to the presential campaign?". Well that is the last thing I want to do, Because they're all millionaires anyway, but if the question read "Do you want to give $1.00 to the Control of the Pet Population?" , I definitely would answer Yes and then some more. That money could cover the cost of fixing all animals.
Also children love pets as much if not more then adults, there should be a pet education in our schools or park districts, to prepare and educate them on owning a pet. Maybe certificates need to be earned and then used to buy a pet.
They're outta be a law "No pet sold, unless it's been Spayed or Nuetered"
In the real world I would like to see some of these changes, but I bet it's highly impossible.
I'm sorry if I wasted your time with this, but just wanted to speak out.
Thank You
WebTV-Mail-11697-2480
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KellyH:

[nq:1]Did you look at our website..? What do you think..? Ivor[/nq]
Looks like a nice site, but I didn't see any hard numbers like Tracy was asking for, or answers to questions like "what does the shelter do when it is full?" It says that the group does euthanize "when the vet recommends it". Well, that could mean anything.

-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
www.kelltek.com
Check out www.snittens.com

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KellyH:

Just chiming in here with my two cents and experiences from volunteering at a limited admission shelter.First off, I think the terms "open admission" and "limited admission" are much more appropriate than "kill" and "no-kill". The group I volunteer for is limited admission, not neccessarily no-kill, and we don't advertise that we are no-kill, either. Our cats come from the local ACO(s), citizen strays, and owner turn-ins. We do not have the facilities to handle FIV and FeLV positive cats. We try to get them into rescues that do take them, but most of the time, they are full.

Usually when we get a positive cat, it has to be put down. Our first priority is the ACO cats, then citizen strays (meaning, "there's a cat hanging around my yard", that type of thing). Next, we take in owner turn-ins in order of priority. Any type of hostile environment comes in right away, such as "my boyfriend hates my cat and he's making me give it up". With owner turn-ins, we try to work with the people, hoping they can solve whatever the problem is and not have to surrender the cat.

Sadly, once someone's mind is made up, they usually won't change it. We do have to keep people waiting, but honestly, we hardly ever flat-out refuse to take in a cat. We are all soft touches and will usually cave to the "I'm going to dump the cat out on the highway" or whatever threat. The cat usually ends up staying in a volunteer's bathroom until there's room at the shelter.
Spay/neuter is the key to the whole mess. It's not as easy as you might think to get people to spay and neuter their cats. I have a friend who volunteers for a spay/neuter resource group. She makes the s/n appointment for the cat, goes to the person's house and picks up the cat, picks it up from the vet, and returns it to the owner. All for a very nominal donation. If they can't come up with the donation, she pays it herself. She's had people tell her not to come at 8:00am for the cat, that's too early, I won't be up. Oh I can't pay the donation, we're saving up for a trip to Disney World. Come on, people! She runs into the freakiest people doing this, but they all profess to "love their cats".

-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
www.kelltek.com
Check out www.snittens.com

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Wendy:

[nq:2]Did you look at our website..? What do you think..? Ivor[/nq]
[nq:1]Looks like a nice site, but I didn't see any hard numbers like Tracy was asking for, or answers to ... group does euthanize "when the vet recommends it". Well, that could mean anything. -Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net[/nq]
That was my thought - don't they ever get full?
I'm wondering if the situation isn't as bad in the UK because their cats run the neighborhood. It's much easier having a cat if you don't have litterbox duty. They are much less likely to scratch up the furniture if they have the opportunity to use the tree in the back yard. Probably have fewer allergy problems if the cat is outside most of the time. Therefore there are going to be fewer surrenders because of difficulties living together.

From what I've seen online, people in the UK aren't any happier with their neighbor's cat in there garden than they are here. I'm wondering how much longer their cats will be given free run of the neighborhood. If the tolerance for the cats wanes lets see how well they do when they too have to keep their animals inside 24/7.

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Ginger-lyn Summer:

My husband and I were discussing this thread last night, and I don't know how feasible this idea is, but he came up with some ideas, so I'm going to present them here for comment.
First, you have a central organization/intake shelter, which you could call "The Hub". These people are the ones responsible for intaking all new cats, vaccinating, neutering, testing, etc. They are also responsible for the biggest fundraising efforts and distribution of food etc. Obviously, this would require veterinarians, vet techs, and all the other things any shelter needs.
Then each no-kill shelter would be affiliated with "The Hub". Because of what The Hub would do, it would free the no-kill shelters from some of the fundraising stresses, some of the costs, and allow them to focus more on pure adoptions.
If one shelter affiliate was full when The Hub got new animals in, a volunteer/staff member could call another affiliate and, hopefully, find one that did have room.
If all the affiliate shelters are full, then a volunteer network of fosterers kicks in, so it's a three-tiered approach.

Add to that, a volunteer network dedicated solely to maintaining feral colonies and doing TNR.
Now, in addition to normal spay/neuter publicity, The Hub could also do a major publicity push right before kitten seasons, to try to draw in more people interested in adopting just at the time the shelters are most likely to be full, to try to help ease the overcrowding that all shelters see at those times of year.
I think there were more details, but that's the gist of it. I think it sounds like an idea that may just work, in terms of no-kill shelters. I think it would work better in a mid-size city, but if they could come up with a model, it could translate to larger cities.

Obviously, there are going to be some details/kinks, but it sounds like a place to start.
Comments?
Ginger-lyn

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Ivor Jones:

[nq:2]Looks like a nice site, but I didn't see any ... euthanize "when the vetrecommends it". Well, that could mean anything.[/nq]
In practice, it means only if the cat is infected with a disease like FeLV, which is invariably fatal anyway. Or, like one poor creature we had in recently, who was both blind and deaf and heavily infected with the FIV virus. She would not have survived long anyway, so it was a sensible decision. We have several FIV+ cats who are currently in good health and will hopefully be homed soon, if they aren't they'll stay with us for as long as necessary.
[nq:1]That was my thought - don't they ever get full?[/nq]
Perhaps, at some locations, we always seem to find room somehow :-)
[nq:1]I'm wondering if the situation isn't as bad in the UK because their catsrun the neighborhood. It's much easier having ... the cat is outside most of the time. Therefore there aregoing to be fewer surrenders because of difficulties living together.[/nq]
One major difference is, from what I can gather, is that here in the UK cats are regarded as wild animals and are therefore not subject to the same rules that apply to dogs, for example. You have no power to stop a cat entering your property, at least not legally.
[nq:1]From what I've seen online, people in the UK aren't any happier withtheir neighbor's cat in there garden than they ... tolerance for the cats wanes lets see how well they do when they toohave to keep their animals inside 24/7.[/nq]
I'd say that it's a 50/50 thing. Cat lovers will obviously not mind other cats in their gardens, those that don't like them will. I can tell you one thing though, the idea of forcing a cat to stay indoors all the time is one that is abhorrent to the majority of UK cat owners. Speaking for myself, if I lived in a place where I couldn't let my cats out, I wouldn't have any.
Ivor

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Kay:

[nq:1]I'd say that it's a 50/50 thing. Cat lovers will obviously not mind other cats in their gardens, those that ... for myself, if I lived in a place where I couldn't let my cats out, I wouldn't have any. Ivor[/nq]
I have read how the majority if the people who reside in the Uk feels about keeping cats indoors. In our shelter or adoption centers I had to sign a contract stating the cat will not be outside and will not be declawed. I wonder why there is such a difference, there must be more room in the UK?
We have so many feral cats born in my neighborhood,We call animal welfare and they don't show up. We take turns calling, we try and trap them ourselves. I will not have my cats exposed to possible Fiv until there is a shot. I have 3 cats all from the street. they have been tested and given thier shots. 2 are kittens and are awaiting to be fixed. In my garden you can see the plants squashed, where all the feral cats sleep.
what should I be doing to protect them from Fiv? Other then not let them roam?
I live nest to an airport, i can't help where I live. This is where I can afford. Is it better for my cats to be in a shelter? There are so many stray dogs also. Its insane here and nothing seems better or getting better.
There is a lady that feeds all the feral cats and keep on reproducing. They all hang out in gangs, they have taken over the yards , my neighbor's dog is afraid to go outside, they are not scared of him anymore cause he is a small dog. Its just nuts over here.

The cats use my yard as a toilet. its just alful. All we can do is try to trap and call the animal welfare and plead for them to come out and see for themselves. Not to mention all the cat fights that break out in the middle of the night.
I live by a major airport, Do you know how many cats live IN the airport? Dogs and cats on runways. Trucks have to go out and try and trap them. it might sound funny to some, but its real over here. You can blame the person who didn't fix thier cats , but were talking about generations of feral cats here. I hope I don't sound like I'm crabing to anyone, its jsut getting so bad we have and am calling all the time, and they are not coming out here. Maybe I can email or write to the news station?
Kay

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frlpwr:

(snip)
[nq:1]I have a problem with it, because no-one is "up-front" about the reality of their policy, especially the so-called "no-kill" shelters.[/nq]
You are making blanket statements that are simply not true. Many no-kill facilities only accept animals scheduled to be euthanized in public shelters. The SFSPCA takes no public surrenders.

Please stop apologizing for public shelters. It took a state law in California to insure shelter animals receive food, water, veterinary care and an outlet for adoption.
(snip)
[nq:1]I really hate it when conventional shelters are called "kill" shelters.[/nq]
This is an apt term for shelters that routinely euthanize animals after the mandated holding period, those that are so unsanitary that animals who are healthy going in soon sicken and die or are euthanized for ill-health, that have limited or no adoption hours, do no public outreach for adoptions, do not develop a foster program, a training program, an in-house volunteer program, do not have a low-cost s/n programs, no free services for ferals and other programs that pay off in lower euthanasia rates.
Public shelters are only as good as their directors and many directors don't give a flying *** how many or in what manner animals are killed under their watch.
Not long ago, a shelter director in Solano county, California, was arrested, (suspended sentence...no surprise), after using shelter kittens as fighting dog bait. This went on for years until a disgruntled employee blew the whistle.
The blame for these slaughterhouses must be shared by the public. Citizens have the power to lobby local governments for better run and better funded shelters. If you can figure out how to make people care about homeless animals, please let me know. I'm stumped.

(snip)
[nq:1]But until that day, it is still neither fair nor accurate for any shelter to call itself a "no-kill" facility.[/nq]
Yes, it is...as long as you allow a bit of tinkering with the word "adoptable".
(snip)
[nq:1]I even had a woman call me once and say she was going to "donate" her unwanted cat to Campus Cats...[/nq]
Heh. I like the ones who say, "...if you don't come and get my ten year-old, blind, cat with kidney disease and a hernia by 6:00 tonight, he's going in the shelter drop box."

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RE: No-kill vs. non no-kill shelters page 7

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