This is a discussion thread · 94 replies Debbie S: I just went back and read what they wrote. Diane said something to the effect of '99% of the time' and Julia offered some caveats. Leah didn't.
Debbie
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michael_: [nq:2](1) - I put anorexia in quotes because applying the ... dogs have a fear of gaining weight?? I doubt it.[/nq]
[nq:1]you're referring to anorexia nervosa, which is a different kettle of fishes. anorexia itself means simply a loss of appetite.[/nq]
Of course, it's perfectly possible for the human
to have the nervosa and the dog to have the
anorexia by proxy.
Disclaimer:
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in the dog newsgroups. People are always running around calling other people mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
This list is strictly for group harmony purposes.
Dateline: rec.pets.dogs.* newsgroups
Breaking Mental Illness News, JUNE 2004!
HATTIE @ 47 lbs!
Hattie, a boxer owned by shelly couvrette is
now down to 47 pounds. Couvrette, a librarian
at Indiana U. who suffers from obsessive/
compulsive disorder (OCD), was told by three
different Veterinarians that Hattie was "way
too skinny" when Hattie weighed 53 lbs.
Undeterred by that, and the reactions from
family and strangers on the street, shelly
continued shopping for vets and cutting
calories until Hattie,a chronic counter
surfer at age 5 now weighs just 47 lbs!
shelly finds all the symptoms of a starving
dog searching for nutrients to be endlessly
entertaining. Couvrette has developed a
unique technique to fool dogs who are
having pangs of starvation. She feeds them
green beans and canned pumpkin, so there
will be some "filler" in their stomachs
when they give her the "I'm Starving no,
really" routine.
shelly is not nearly as obsessed with her
own weight, and has never been told by a
medical professional that she is "way too
skinny." If so, that medical professional
would be end up on this crazy person list
as well.
For a complete recap of the shelly and
hattie show, page down to the bottom of
this list.
A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly the librarian at Indiana U.
SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING
EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED
"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding
weight to her. six months later i took
harriet in for her spring check-up and my
vet was surprised that at how thin she still
was."
shelly couvrette
STILL VET SHOPPING
" i've been told by three
different vets that harriet (53lbs) is
way too skinny. we're still vet-shopping,
BTW."
shelly couvrette
THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE
"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls the "i'm starving!" routine , you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount
of plain pureed pumpkin. i would also suggest
putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food still inside the bags, which are tightly
rolled down inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."
shelly couvrette
POSITIVELY STARVED
"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved
to death. i've actually had people stop me in
the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to
fatten her up!"
shelly couvrette
WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR
WIDDLE PRECIOUS?
"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're
hurting your .widdle precious? i think the
other part is that some vets really don't
realize that what they consider proper weight
is fat. after having been told by a couple of
vets that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim
view of vets on that topic."
shelly couvrette
JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
shelly's mom
FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR
ARM OFF,
shelly
"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny,
so feeding her table snax is okay. she
tells me that just a bite won't hurt."
shelly couvrette
March 2004, HATTIE DOWN TO 47 POUNDS
Goes from WAY TOO SKINNY to
WAY WAY WAY too freakin' skinny
"while i was sick,
elliott was pretty good (he got really
needy and pathetic toward the end), but
harriet turned into 47lbs of pure
orneriness."
shelly couvrette
MORE DESPERATE COUNTER SURFING, June 2004
last night when i came home to a box of
instant mashed potatoEs strewn all over
the house and white goo plastered all over
the dogs' muzzles. they were just innocent
bystanders.
shelly couvrette
NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PIG SHELLY
NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
There are a lot of big fat women on these groups
who starve their dogs out of vanity, but shelly
is a special case.
shelly is moore than a little bit beyond the pale
Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little
obsessive about measuring out extra tiny and
discrete portions with a tiny measuring cup, or
counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin
that she gives her dogs when they give her the
"I'm Starving" routine. When grandma tried to
give Hattie a snack, shelly probably went apeshit, because it was in violation of her Obsessive need
to oversee every tiny calorie that goes into her
widdle precious' mouth.
shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog
abuser
this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list
copyright 2004
dogtv.com networks
you are free to reproduce this list
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Julia Altshuler: [nq:1]No biggie. Language use has slipped a lot over the years and decades and centuries, and medical terms are the ... modern education system wherever they came to light. Not that I think this makes me all that popular.. Sigh! Katrina[/nq]
Not to worry. Some of us love raging pedants. Do you keep a pen in your pocket to scratch out promiscuous apostrophes that show up in signs at the supermarket? I do. Carrot's 59 cents.
I'm glad for the information on the difference between anorexia nervosa and garden variety anorexia. That explains a lot. It doesn't explain why Leah continues to be the one to get picked on even when she's right and even when she's used exactly the same language I have. The dog won't starve.
For the original poster: If your dog is losing a lot of weight to the point of having no energy or having ribs with no fine layer of muscle and fat over them (whether you can see or feel ribs will depend on the furriness and build of the dog, but in general you want to be able to feel that they're there but not have them sticking out) or is exhibiting any symptoms despite the presence of nourishing food, see your vet. For the dog like Doll whose owner depended over much on the idea that Doll wouldn't starve, I find it hard to believe that the owner would let it get to that point before realizing that something was terribly wrong. Or rather, I find it sadly too easy to believe. Some people are idiots.
Lia
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Marcel Beaudoin: [nq:2]Sorry, but your post in response to Leah's post makes it sound like you were talking directly about this case. >[/nq]
[nq:1]"Now, what if you'd offered the above advice to a dog like Doll, and the owner ran with it?" Not ... advice to a 'dog like Doll'... 'he won't starve'. There's some caveats that should always go along with that 'advice'.[/nq]
To properly answer that question, she would need to know the full situation that Doll was in when you got her, and what you went through trying to get her to eat.
Yeah, only if you know there are caveats that should go along. If, after a week of the dog still not eating, you don't think that she would tell the owners to go to the vet??
[nq:2]Then why didn't you say the same thing to Diane and Julia? They suggested the exact same thing!![/nq]
[nq:1]Diane and Julia do not have the same track record as Leah does, and I do not read their basic info posts normally, only scan them.[/nq]
I hope that, from now on, you will be watching Diane's and Julia's posts to make sure that they offer these caveats.
[nq:2]As for the sig line, IIRC (and this is only ... asked to put her job in her sig line >[/nq]
[nq:1]I know why it's there. I'm also aware of the validation it gives her posts, whether she knows what she's talking about, or just parroting what she's heard elsewhere.[/nq]
And if it is what she has been taught, how is she supposed to know it is wrong. In all the other cases where this has come up on the newsgroup, this is the first time that the possibility of an anorexic dog has been mentioned, by anyone.
[nq:2]that it will be fine without food for a couple of days>[/nq]
[nq:1]Depending on the condition of the dog, the size of the dog, a 'couple of days' could be life threatening.[/nq]
That is a given. If it has been a week that the dog hasn't eaten, or if the dog shows other signs of illness.
[nq:2]As a curiosity (and I am being serious) what advice did your vet give you?? >[/nq]
[nq:1]When I got her out of that situation, we put her on IV's immediately. We kept her alive by tube ... in immediate vomiting. That's why we ended up at Tufts, the drug that worked for her was a psychotropic, IIRC.[/nq]
But how did you determine that she was anorexic, and that it wasn't just a change in environment that brought all this on? If you have already told the story let me know and I will go a'googlin. This is interesting. That an dog (in general) could override their very basest of instincts and not eat shocks me.
Marcel
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shelly: On 7 Jul 2004 16:50:06 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
[nq:1]she was asked to put her job in her sig line (IIRC, it was PetSmart at the time).[/nq]
because she was recommending Petsmart products/services here. if she was going to do so, it was appropriated that people be told that she worked for the company.
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott & harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
Abuse report filed!
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Marcel Beaudoin: [nq:1]I just went back and read what they wrote. Diane said something to the effect of '99% of the time' and Julia offered some caveats. Leah didn't.[/nq]
To be precise, Julia's caveats were that "If his energy is good and he shows no signs of listlessness or diarrhea". Otherwise, she said "Some dogs hold out for a week, but they all (emphasis mine) come around."
Diane said "99% of dogs with food issues will go hungry maybe a couple days, but then they eat." No warning that they could have medical problems beyond this.
Leah said "He won't starve.  " and then, farther down "Don't worry about a puppy going a few days without eating, or without eating much. As long as he's drinking, he's fine."
Not a whole lot of difference between the posts. I think that you are reading a whole lot into Leah's posts that isn't there.
Marcel
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shelly: On 7 Jul 2004 18:44:59 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
[nq:1]I hope that, from now on, you will be watching Diane's and Julia's posts to make sure that they offer these caveats.[/nq]
Julia recommended keeping an eye on the dog's condition; Diane did not make the sort of blanket statement that Leah made.
[nq:1]And if it is what she has been taught, how is she supposed to know it is wrong.[/nq]
by getting spanked, which is what happens to people here when they talk smack.
[nq:1]In all the other cases where this has come up on the newsgroup, this is the first time that the possibility of an anorexic dog has been mentioned, by anyone.[/nq]
yes. but this is also the first time, that i can recall, that someone made a blanket statement that the dog would be fine. others either caution that most dogs will be fine or that the dog's condition needs to be monitored. that may seem like a big, fat duh, but i think in a case like this it's best to err on the side of conservative. someone who doesn't know that dogs will often engage in hunger strikes isn't likely to be someone who understands the finer points of sorting a potential problem from spoiled behavior.
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott & harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
Thirty Helens agree, if you want to remember something, write it down. Kids in the Hall
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shelly: On 7 Jul 2004 18:55:47 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
[nq:1]Leah said "He won't starve. " and then, farther down "Don't worry about a puppy going a few days without eating, or without eating much. As long as he's drinking, he's fine."[/nq]
i would most certainly worry about an 8 week old puppy especially a toy breed not eating for a few days!
granted, the pup in question *is* eating, but i think giving the OP the impression that it's okay for a baby to go without food for days on end is irresponsible.
shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott & harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
Dilute! Dilute! Or wet skin well! OK!
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Handsome Jack Morrison: [nq:2]Leah said "He won't starve. " and then, farther down ... without eating much. As long as he's drinking, he's fine."[/nq]
[nq:1]i would most certainly worry about an 8 week old puppy especially a toy breed not eating for a few days![/nq]
Two days, to be exact.
[nq:1]granted, the pup in question *is* eating, but i think giving the OP the impression that it's okay for a baby to go without food for days on end is irresponsible.[/nq]
Is it just me, or is anyone else here troubled by the fact that the OP has yet to add anything to the discussion after her/his first post?
"We've been at this for days and he loves to eat chicken and cooked white rice but REFUSES to even look at dog food. It sits there and he simply does not eat unless there is chicken and rice available to him."
"This is our first puppy and the vet said during his examination that he is 100% healthy..."
I think the above statements bode well for the pup he loves to eat chicken and rice, so I doubt whether there's a physical problem here, but it sure would be nice to hear more from the OP.
Yo! Ryan!
Speak now or forever hold your peace.
Wassup?
Handsome Jack Morrison
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