[nq:2]A Staffy Bull. Yes.[/nq] [nq:2]FWIW,, [nq:1]Yanno, Melissa, I hadn't even, [nq:1]Yanno, Melissa,

Skyrocket Cockers:

[nq:1]Yanno, Melissa, I hadn't even thought of them! But now that you putit in my mind - hmmm, small but ... I've known.I know, I know, they were probably puppy mill/BYB dogs, but my limitedexperience with cockers has not been good.[/nq]
Its definitly a breed you have to be careful with where you go.
[nq:1]So enlighten me just bit if you don't mind. It's English Cockersyou're talking about, right?[/nq]
No! Americans - www.mfrye.com/skyrocket/dice.html
For example.
(If you do go English stay away from the show stuff - I would definilty go fieldbred).
[nq:1]Are there still field cockers being bred anywhere? Or are there any actual 'agility' lines?[/nq]
Both - Dice's father is a working gundog, as are most of the field Americans - a few are trialling but not many.
You have field lines, show lines, showlines that also do performace, and a couple of multi-performance lines.
[nq:1]IOW, what would you suggest I go about looking for in a breeder/pedigree to get a stable family dog that would stillhave some spunk for performance events?[/nq]
Drive actually isn't hard to find if you look at the right lines. Much easier to find than in Cavs actually, which tend to be low to moderate drive.
Focus can be a bit trickier.
There are some very fast cockers out there, but more many are willing to adapt to their owner.
Look for lines working on performance events - I can recommend some breeders and I think the FC *** in New York has a litter on the ground.
(Dice is also being bred to Hunter, which should produce outstanding field/agility prospects).
There are some nice dogs that have come out of nowhere too, but it's chancier.
Unfortunatly you are in a bit of dead-zone - I don't know anyone in your neck of the woods.
Biggest drawback if you don't go field-bred is grooming - for straight showbred you are looking at a trip to the groomers every 6 weeks. Show lines tend to have more bone and shorter backs, both of aren't great for agility.
They aren't couch potatoes though, even most of the showbreds. They are for moderately active families - Dice is busy, and Hunter is a retrieve till he can't move sort of dog.
(He is actually great for cook-outs because he will keep the kids entertained by retrieveing the ball and dropping it at their feet the whole time. He's one of those dogs that I would totally trust with any kid without reservation (two of his sons live with my 5 yo red-headed nephew).
While most cockers goal in life is to be 50 lbs., they will expend 50 calories to get 5.
Cockers do tend to be soft - you can inhibit them fairly easily, and while physicaly very resiliant tend to be less so emotionally.

Melissa

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]Yanno, Melissa, I hadn't even thought of them! But now that you put it inmy mind - hmmm, small but still the sporting temperament I'm used to. I guessI am mostly scared of the horribly bad temperament in a couple I've known.[/nq]
IF you can find a good Cocker (and of course that's a big IF), they're great little dogs.
I know, I

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Sionnach:

[nq:2]By a Staffy Bull?!? One of the little guys?[/nq]
[nq:1]A Staffy Bull. Yes.[/nq]
[nq:1]FWIW, the woman is fairly small boned and the dog took the fingers across the bone >between the knuckle and joint.[/nq]
Ok, Robin, this story needs more details - inquiring minds want to know! What were the circumstances? Surely the dog didn't just out of the blue bite off his owner's fingers - was this in the course of breaking up a fight, or what?
While all the Staffies I know (and yes, I, too, am talking about "the little guys") are fairly similar to Pit Bulls WRT their desire to fight other dogs, they are ALSO similar to Pit Bulls in being very friendly and non-aggressive with humans.
A side note to Dianne: Staffies may be teeny, but their jaws are extremely powerful. Nemo - one of the Staffs that we know at the park; it's his female packmate who has the extreme fight drive - weighs maybe 20 lbs, but can pop with ease tough rubber balls that defy the efforts of Labs and much larger dogs.
Nemo, btw, is OK around my dogs because he doesn't pick fights with females, and he doesn't pick fights with dogs more than twice his size (Bren is 3x his size). We do have to make sure to head off any potential squabbles over balls, though.

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Robin Nuttall:

[nq:2]A Staffy Bull. Yes.[/nq]
[nq:2]FWIW, the woman is fairly small boned and the dog took the fingers across the bone >between the knuckle and joint.[/nq]
[nq:1]Ok, Robin, this story needs more details - inquiring minds want to know! What were the circumstances? Surely the dog didn't just out of the blue bite off his owner's fingers - was this in the course of breaking up a fight, or what?[/nq]
You know, I don't know. This woman is more friends with another friend of mine. I don't think it was breaking up a fight, but I just don't know the circumstances. Whatever it was, the owner didn't think it was an accident certainly she returned the dog and got completely out of the breed, though she'd had Staffies for years. But I just don't know more than that. If I find out more, I'll let you know.
[nq:1]While all the Staffies I know (and yes, I, too, am talking about "the little guys") are fairly similar to Pit Bulls WRT their desire to fight other dogs, they are ALSO similar to Pit Bulls in being very friendly and non-aggressive with humans.[/nq]
Well and I think you're right for the most part. My story isn't an indictment against all Staffy Bulls, but rather as a caution to be careful where you get one especially since the breeder has since bred this dog...

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]Whatever it was, the owner didn't think it was an accident certainly she returned the dog and got completely out of the breed, though she'd had Staffies for years. But I just don't know more than that. If I find out more, I'll let you know.[/nq]
If you do, please do... although it's more curiosity than something else.
[nq:1]My story isn't an indictment against all Staffy Bulls, but rather as a caution to be careful where you get one especially since the breeder has since >bred this dog...[/nq]
I find myself wondering if the dog is possibly related to the one I know - the *** with the very high fight drive.
I know she came from some distance away, that the buyer searched for a "good breeder", and that she's been kept intact because she's from "good show lines" and the breeder wants the buyer to show and possibly breed her.

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Sionnach:

[nq:1]If you do, please do... although it's more curiosity than >somethingelse.[/nq]
Ack! That was intended to say "than ANYTHING else".

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diannes:

[nq:2]By a Staffy Bull?!? One of the little guys?[/nq]
[nq:1]A Staffy Bull. Yes.[/nq]
Wow. Based on the one I used to train with, I sure wouldn't have guessed that they had that potential. He always made me think of a giant Pug without the bulgy eyes. I guess you learn something new every
day.
Dianne

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KWBrown:

[nq:1]Biggest drawback if you don't go field-bred is grooming - for straight showbred you are looking at a trip to the groomers every 6 weeks. Show lines tend to have more bone and shorter backs, both of aren't great for agility.[/nq]
Do they have lots more coat than an ESS (Bench-bred?)

I managed to keep my ESS in good nick with clippers, scissors, and a Mars stripping tool for the back, but I somehow think a bench-bred ACS would be more challenging. Am I right?

Kate
and Storm the FCR

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Skyrocket Cockers:

Field bred cockers have maybe a smig more than a field-bred ESS, less than a showbred ESS.
I clipper Dice face maybe three to four times a year, never do anything to her body (she has just light feathering). I could just strip the top of her head, but I am lazy..
I have never stripped her back of trimmed her feathers except to cut out the occsional underarm/burr mat.
Her mother is the same excpet I occsionally trim her feathering with scissors.
Show breds need regular involved grooming, unless you are like me and simply 10-blade them every 2-3 months, which still is way more involved than many people want to deal with.

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RE: Small agility/family dog? page 10

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