Strange behavior of owner and his 2 dogs

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Anonymous:
Hi, everyone,My neighbor has two dogs that he keeps inside his house almost constantly. The dogs are both female, one is a large black lab and the other is a fat Stafford pitbull-looking dog. When the guy first moved in, the black dog was very friendly and the other one, who had already bitten a little girl down the street during one of his first escapes, was mean and dangerous looking. Over the past few months I've seen that the neighbor never opens his garage door, never goes outside his house, never waters his lawn, trees, and plants (it was a brand new house) even though he has an automatic sprinkler system, never ever walks his dogs and never leaves the dogs outside except for about 5 minutes each day.

A couple of weeks ago, I saw the dogs outside while he was standing there, and the black dog, instead of being the sweetheart she was, tried to attack me while barking shrilly, like killing me was her sole purpose in life. I have two children and these dogs have esaped before and chased ducks. I am worried about these animals (and about this guy, to tell you the truth). Are these dogs being abused? I called our local cops and they couldn't do anything until the animals actually bite someone.
naybor
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Child:
[nq:1]Hi, everyone, My neighbor has two dogs that he keeps inside his house almost constantly. The dogs are both female, ... these dogs being abused? I called our local cops and they couldn't do anything until the animals actually bite someone.[/nq]
i hear no evidence that the dogs are abused in your story. I hear evidence that the dogs are poorly socialized. He needs to make sure his dogs don't get loose.
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Charlie Wilkes:
[nq:1]Hi, everyone, My neighbor has two dogs that he keeps inside his house almost constantly. The dogs are both female, ... dogs being abused? I called our local cops and they couldn't do anything until the animals actually bite someone. naybor[/nq]
Stay OUT of this situation unless the guy does something illegal or unless the dogs are starving or appear to be physically injured, in which case you call the ASPCA.
You don't know what is going on. This may be a guy who has people out to kill him. Or, the guy may be a tweaker or a paranoid nut.

You are slightly worried, but you are also curious. I strongly suggest, for your own sake, that you find something else to be curious about.
Charlie
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Anonymous:
[nq:2]Hi, everyone, My neighbor has two dogs that he keeps ... couldn't do anything until the animals actually bite someone. naybor[/nq]
[nq:1]Stay OUT of this situation unless the guy does something illegal or unless the dogs are starving or appear to ... are also curious. I strongly suggest, for your own sake, that you find something else to be curious about. Charlie[/nq]
I'm not curious. His dogs ran across my yard and attacked some animals. That could easily have been one of my kids. I am concerned and will be as nosy as I see fit.
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Child:
[nq:1]I'm not curious. His dogs ran across my yard and attacked some animals. That could easily have been one of my kids. I am concerned and will be as nosy as I see fit.[/nq]
Ohh, your animals.!
if his animal attacked one of your animals on your property, call animal control and file a report.
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Lynn K.:
[nq:1]I'm not curious. His dogs ran across my yard and attacked some animals. That could easily have been one of my kids. I am concerned and will be as nosy as I see fit.[/nq]
Be as nosy as you like, but don't be concerned about your kids. There is absolutely no correlation between aggression towards other animals and aggression towards humans. Zero, zip, none. Chasing ducks does NOT mean these dogs are likely to bite your children.

Let's be honest here - you're afraid of these dogs and a little afraid of your neighbor, too. You asked about neglect or abuse in hopes that some authority would simply come and take the dogs away from him and you wouldn't have to worry about them any more. That isn't going to happen because the dogs aren't being abused. If the dogs are wandering around the neighborhood unsupervised you can call Animal Control to have them picked up (note - not the police). Chances are good that your neighbor will have called his dogs home long before Animal Control is able to respond, so it probably will not result in the dogs being taken to the pound. If it does, he'll probably pick them up there immediately anyhow.
My best advice to you is to be very careful that you don't transfer your fears of these dogs to your kids. The dogs may not damage your children, but you will.
Lynn K.
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Charlie Wilkes:
[nq:2]I'm not curious. His dogs ran across my yard and ... concerned and will be as nosy as I see fit.[/nq]
[nq:1]Be as nosy as you like, but don't be concerned about your kids. There is absolutely no correlation between aggression ... your fears of these dogs to your kids. The dogs may not damage your children, but you will. Lynn K.[/nq]
Yes. Nosy Naybor's tale of woe gives rise to skepticism on several points.
1. She has contacted the police, and they say they can't do anythinguntil the dogs actually bite someone. BUT, she says one of the dogs has in fact bitten a child. Which is it?
2. She mentioned a number of issues having nothing to do with thedogs e.g., the garage door is never open; the lawn is neglected. This suggests her unhappiness with the neighbor is broad-based, but the dogs are the only possible reason for her to complain. She may therefore be tempted to exaggerate her reports of the dogs' behavior.
3. She confidently avers that the neighbor never walks the dogs andthey are seldom out. This suggests she is home most or all of the time and paying close attention, which is not conducive to a balanced perspective.
My concern is that she may get herself into something she'll regret. What if the guy is growing a big crop of pot in the house and her nosiness puts him behind bars just long enough to work up a fat grudge? What if his life sucks and he is two stiff drinks away from a gunning people down at random?
I have noticed that middle-class Americans tend to assume their "rights" are the be-all and end-all of everything, and that being on the "right" side of the issue, whatever that means, will keep them safe and sound. And yet, when I read the papers, I see that is not always the case.
I myself have done some extremely stupid things over the course of my life, and I have lived to learn from my experience. One of the lessons I have learned is to choose my battles carefully, with realistic foresight of the possible consequences. (Except on Usenet, where the opposite is true, and it is always best to wallow into the fray completely stoned and half informed.)
Charlie
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Anonymous:
I see that there is a lot of prejudice in this group in favor of dogs and not humans. OK, I'll respond below.
[nq:2]Be as nosy as you like, but don't be concerned ... NOT mean these dogs are likely to bite your children.[/nq]
Bull. On one occasion one of the dogs bit a child down the street. They chase ANYTHING.
[nq:2]Let's be honest here - you're afraid of these dogs and a little afraid of your neighbor, too.[/nq]
YOU would walk up to these dogs and just do the dances with wolves thing? NO! You would be afraid and lying if you weren't. And they weren't so scary when I first met them. I petted both of them and at least the black one seemed happy. Now she seems like she's on a feeding frenzy for human meat.
[nq:1]You asked about neglect or abuse in hopes that[/nq]
[nq:2]some authority would simply come and take the dogs away from him and you wouldn't have to worry about them any more.[/nq]
Much as I don't like the dogs (I liked the black one before she became psycho and I never liked the other one), I still feel they deserve better than being in a house 23 hours and 55 minutes a day and never going for a walk. They have a big back yard and they could easily be secured yet allowed to roam about.
[nq:1]That isn't going to[/nq]
[nq:2]happen because the dogs aren't being abused.[/nq]
Bull. What a load of crap.
[nq:1]If the dogs are[/nq]
[nq:2]wandering around the neighborhood unsupervised you can call Animal Control to have them picked up (note - not the police).[/nq]
NOT in the 5 minutes or so that they pull the stake out of the ground and escape, then get retrieved by the owner. That's like calling the cops and complaining that some kid just burned rubber on your street.
[nq:1]Chances are[/nq]
[nq:2]good that your neighbor will have called his dogs home ... it does, he'll probably pick them up there immediately anyhow.[/nq]
And maybe he'll get a fence or some other clue? He told me he doesn't want a fence because it would spoil the view, BTW.
[nq:2]My best advice to you is to be very careful ... The dogs may not damage your children, but you will.[/nq]
OH BROTHER! The first time my kids ran back inside the house from our back yard because of the gnashing of teeth and barking and leash straining made my kids afraid, not my Freudian transfer of fear. I am very glad they are afraid of these dogs. They would be stupid if they weren't.
[nq:2]Lynn K.[/nq]
[nq:1]Yes. Nosy Naybor's tale of woe gives rise to skepticism on several points. 1. She has contacted the police, and ... dogs actually bite someone. BUT, she says one of the dogs has in fact bitten a child. Which is it?[/nq]
The child that was bitten was visiting a neighbor down the street. I don't know why her parents didn't do anything about it but by the time I heard about it, the kid was gone. Believe me, I would have said something if I knew who these people were.
Also, it seems you made up your mind already with your "detective work" with this list of items you made. BTW, I'm not a "she", I'm a "he".
[nq:1]2. She mentioned a number of issues having nothing to do with the dogs e.g., the garage door is ... only possible reason for her to complain. She may therefore be tempted to exaggerate her reports of the dogs' behavior.[/nq]
I was laying groundwork before mentioning the treatment of the dogs. I was talking to the guy last night, I offered him help with his lawn. I think he is just ignorant of what he is doing to these dogs, because I saw the "before" and "after" of the dogs' treatment while he just saw minute changes in their behavior, minute enough to go unnoticed by him but not from an objective person.
[nq:1]3. She confidently avers that the neighbor never walks the dogs and they are seldom out. This suggests she is home most or all of the time and paying close attention, which is not conducive to a balanced perspective.[/nq]
I've lived next to this guy for a year and I know the difference between my neighbors down the street who walk their dogs, etc, and those who don't. I'm not home most of the time, Inspector, but some others are.
[nq:1]My concern is that she may get herself into something she'll regret. What if the guy is growing a big ... What if his life sucks and he is two stiff drinks away from a gunning people down at random?[/nq]
What if his dogs tear my child's arm off or throat out? You're absurd.
[nq:1]I have noticed that middle-class Americans tend to assume their "rights" are the be-all and end-all of everything, and that ... keep them safe and sound. And yet, when I read the papers, I see that is not always the case.[/nq]
Well, it seems you lumped me in with a bunch of others. First, I'm female and scared of my neighbor and his dogs. Then I am exaggerating and projecting my "irrational" fears to my kids. Now you are pontificating about middle-class Americans and coming to conclusions based on B.S. premises. I hope you aren't a cop.
[nq:1]I myself have done some extremely stupid things over the course of my life, and I have lived to learn ... where the opposite is true, and it is always best to wallow into the fray completely stoned and half informed.)[/nq]^^
That explains a lot. I should have read the end of your response first, it would have saved me a lot of typing.
All I asked was if the dogs are being abused, after giving a little background on the owner's weirdness, in a newsgroup about doggy behavior. I didn't fabricate or exaggerate a single thing. If locking dogs up in the house almost 24 hours a day isn't abuse, then fine.
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Charlie Wilkes:
[nq:1]Bull. On one occasion one of the dogs bit a child down the street. They chase ANYTHING. YOU would walk ... and at least the black one seemed happy. Now she seems like she's on a feeding frenzy for human meat.[/nq]
Is she emaciated?

Oops! Sorry about that. Your emotional, overwrought tone made me think you were female.
But I have not made up my mind about your situation, Nosy. As I explained, I am merely skeptical.
So you know about the dog-biting incident, but you don't know the people the child was visiting when bitten? Did you mention the dog-biting incident when you contacted the police with the suggestion that they talk to the people in the household where this incident took place?
More broadly, do you know your neighbors well enough to know if they share your concerns? I would think a whole neighborhood of people worried about a pair of dogs, including one family who had a guest who was bitten, would present a situation the authorities would have to take seriously. You on your own, however, do not come across as having objectivity or credibility.
But, as I said, I am a skeptic, and my mind is not yet made up.

Again, is this an issue of concern to your other neighbors? If the dogs have a history of getting loose, if they appear aggressive toward people, if one of them has bitten a child, and if you can document all of this as a neighborhood committee, perhaps the authorities will compel this individual to build a fence or otherwise secure the dogs.
[nq:2]My concern is that she may get herself into something ... stiff drinks away from a gunning people down at random?[/nq]
[nq:1]What if his dogs tear my child's arm off or throat out? You're absurd.[/nq]
Not really. Read the papers.
[nq:2]I have noticed that middle-class Americans tend to assume their ... the papers, I see that is not always the case.[/nq]
[nq:1]Well, it seems you lumped me in with a bunch of others. First, I'm female and scared of my neighbor ... you are pontificating about middle-class Americans and coming to conclusions based on B.S. premises. I hope you aren't a cop.[/nq]
No and it's a good thing I'm not. I'd be shooting people left and right, pal. Bang, bang, bang. Ask questions later.
[nq:2]I myself have done some extremely stupid things over the ... to wallow into the fray completely stoned and half informed.)[/nq]
^^
[nq:1]That explains a lot. I should have read the end of your response first, it would have saved me a lot of typing.[/nq]
That's why I saved it for last.
[nq:1]All I asked was if the dogs are being abused, after giving a little background on the owner's weirdness, in ... exaggerate a single thing. If locking dogs up in the house almost 24 hours a day isn't abuse, then fine.[/nq]
It's not really abuse, but it's no way to treat dogs, in my opinion. I don't like the sound of your neighbor, which is why I advise caution in mucking it up with him.
BUT, if you want to muck it up, here's an idea: get two or three big, shiny live-traps and place them in prominent sight on your property, right where those dogs will go first if they escape. Keep a hidden nanny-cam on your setup with a videotape going 24/7 and wait for the guy to mess with your traps. If you trap any animals, take them to the authorities immediately.
It's not what I would do, but it will make your life interesting.

Have fun and let us know how things work out.
Charlie
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