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pulling on a dog that doesn't want to go forward.

I know this post was directed at the "other" Janet, but I want to clarify. I am trying to do ... s/he doesn't have time to put on the brakes. I agree that a tug-of-war situation is not a good one.

That is in fact the exact same thing that *I* do.
But I have had a dog (er, dogs) try to park it anyway, and in those cases I announce my ... move away from you, particularly if you're moving fast, where the operative word is "move") (BTW, other Janet, that's punishment).

I've often been an "oops - let's try that again" type. Sometimes it's just the angle of approach. With the Golden, the last phase was us standing out of sight in the office. She hemmed and hawed and danced at the edge of the flooring, because she couldn't see us, but she heard us talking, and she desperately wanted to be with us. She finally went for it and trotted back there. She got a ton of praise and a food reward and was a very happy girl!

Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
But I have had a dog (er, dogs) try to ... the operative word is "move") (BTW, other Janet, that's punishment).

I've often been an "oops - let's try that again" type. Sometimes it's just the angle of approach. With the ... and trotted back there. She got a ton of praise and a food reward and was a very happy girl!

That's all very well and good, but with a dog like Sally whose housetraining is iffy, giving her options is out of the question. She has to be where we are, period. And, she's not resisting out of stubborness, but out of fear. So she needs to be moved through the halls and up and down the stairs quickly and cheerily but on a lead. With her that works. Often she'll refuse coaxing to come upstairs with me, for example, but as soon as I put her on a kennel lead she trots right along with no hesitation at all. And every time she ventures to a new place she gains confidence.
If you don't have the pup in the room with ... husband doesn't like being in the same room with dogs?

My husband is not crazy about dogs. He doesn't mind them in the same room, but doesn't want them keeping ... room as the puppy, I'm either going to have to move my hubby out, or sleep downstairs with the puppy.

Sleep downstairs with the puppy. Having the puppy in the same room with you at night is part of having a puppy.
Mustang Sally
I'm either going to have to move

my hubby out, or sleep downstairs with the puppy.

Sleep downstairs with the puppy. Having the puppy in the same room with you at night is part of having a puppy. Mustang Sally

I vote for moving the hubby to the couch. Majority rules! ;-D

Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
The question for me is how they frame the interaction ... to rely on punishment to teach her dog new things.

Wow, that's a statement of unmitigated bitchery.()

That's always what you should expect from an unmitigated ***, Janet.

A-L-W-A-Y-S.
Bitchery. It's what she knows. It's what she is.

Moreover, I know of no trainers anywhere who "rely on punishment."

None. Nada. Zilch. Zero.
Most of us do, however, rely on the four quadrants of operant conditioning, half of which deal with punishments (P- and P+).

And to ignore those quadrants accomplishes several things, none of them helpful to training a dog.
It prolongs the amount of time it takes to train a dog, and it relieves the dog from taking responsibility for his own actions.

Why anyone would ever want to do that is, and always will be, a huge mystery to me.
As far as the Monks as "puppy millers" go, it's an outrageous use of the term, further diminishing the term's real meaning.

There are real puppy millers out there, and that's where everyone's angst should be directed, not at the Monks.
They may or may not be the best GSD breeders going, but they ain't a puppy mill.
Trust me, I know a puppy mill when I see one, and the Monks ain't it.

And they've also written some really good books over the years (along with their offspring, like Jobe Michael Evans) that have been an immense help to many dog owners.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
And listening to Malinda regarding dog training is akin to listening to
50 cent regarding the opera.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
I'm either going to have to move Sleep downstairs with ... at night is part of having a puppy. Mustang Sally

I vote for moving the hubby to the couch. Majority rules! ;-D

Well, that would be the easiest solution.
Mustang Sally
Okay.
Wouldn't paying attention to him, and even putting my fingers through the crate be reinforcing the behavior?

No, it will be very comforting to your puppy. Just don't use your fingers to play with him. Just dangle ... Kahuna. Once he knows that you're right there by his side, he'll doze off. Provided you did everything else correctly.

I'll give it a try.
Bizby
Take him to that new movie, "Must Love Dogs". Afterwards, stare at him. Hard. Talk about the John Cusack character ... bunk in with the puppy in another room for the duration. Maybe he'll experience a change of heart?

lol Well, I've broached the subject of him sleeping in my son's room for the duration. Son would have to be with me as he flops all over and DH can't sleep through that either. I can if I feel him flop on me at all, it just makes me smile as I drift back off to sleep. But as I said, DH has long standing sleep problems. Conditions have to be perfect.

And I'm sure he'd allow conjugal visits. ;-)
Bizby
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