"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The author of a new state law that allows felony charges against owners of dangerous dogs was hospitalized over the weekend after his own dog attacked him..."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051019/ap on fe st/adviser dog bite
Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
Read it. If nothing else, you'll understand why we must fight them. http://victorhanson.com/articles/thornton101305.html
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"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The author of a new state law that allows felony charges against owners of dangerous dogs was hospitalized over the weekend after his own dog attacked him..." on fe st/adviser dog bite

That is deeply weird.
"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The author of a new state law that allows felony charges against owners of dangerous dogs was hospitalized over the weekend after his own dog attacked him..." on fe st/adviser dog bite

How sad for him and his dog. I wonder which one it was - the boxer or one of the bulldogs.
Two pit mixes that were rescued from Katrina and brought to NM attacked a shelter volunteer who had stopped by the foster home to take the male to the vet - his neutering site had become infected.

http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/2005/10/18/headline news/news02.txt

Now I'm wondering how this law will work with these dogs - will the foster home be liable? Or the person who rescued the dogs from New Orleans? Or no one - which IMO would be preferable.

FurPaw

"Don't believe everything that you think."
- Seen on a bumper sticker
To reply, unleash the dog
"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The author of a new state law ... own dog attacked him..." on fe st/adviser dog bite

How sad for him and his dog. I wonder which one it was - the boxer or one of the bulldogs.

I don't think it really matters.
Two pit mixes that were rescued from Katrina and brought to NM attacked a shelter volunteer who had stopped by the foster home to take the male to the vet - his neutering site had become infected. http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/2005/10/18/headline news/news02.txt

IMO, this smacks of another case of "stupid is as stupid does."

Send a total stranger out to a house (in which the foster parents were not home) to pick up a dog undergoing stress (and maybe PAIN as well, and not expect "***" to happen?

Now, I hate it when someone gets bitten, but for crissakes, how stupid can one person (or more) get?
Yes, most dogs wouldn't have bitten her, but a very large percentage of dogs, and of many other breeds, too, would have/should have been expected to react in a similar way.
That's why, if we're really serious about wanting to cut down on incidents like this one, humans have to stop doing stupid ***.
Now I'm wondering how this law will work with these dogs - will the foster home be liable?

Who knows?
It's such a stupid law that anything is possible here.

Until we can find a way to ban stupid people from having sex with each other, anything's possible.

Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
Saddam Hussein: The Left's New Mumia?
http://newsbusters.org/node/2353
Two pit mixes that were rescued from Katrina and brought to NM attacked a shelter volunteer who had stopped by the foster home to take the male to the vet - his neutering site had become infected. http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/2005/10/18/headline news/news02.txt

If somebody came to my house like this, and I wasn't home, and my dogs tore his or her butt up, I'd give them praise and a treat. I would NEVER have suggested to ANYONE that they could come to my home and take one of my dogs out when I wasn't there. NEVER NEVER NEVER.
Now I'm wondering how this law will work with these dogs - will the foster home be liable? Or the person who rescued the dogs from New Orleans? Or no one - which IMO would be preferable.

I think they ought to disband the shelter that sent that volunteer over there, and jail the volunteer and her supervisor. If she'd come to my house like that, I'd've pressed charges for illegal entry or trespassing. If she was still alive. If the foster family said she could pick up the dog when they weren't home, they're too stupid to have dogs.

These dogs were *rescues.* Nobody can have any idea how well they were socialized. They've only been in contact with them since sometime after August 29. It would have been much safer to assume that the dogs would behave like NORMAL DOGS and protect their territory against intruders when the owners weren't there. That's NORMAL. It isn't a temperament problem, and it isn't some aberration.
J effin C. This rescue group works with dogs and has no frickin' idea how dogs behave. Poor dogs. They were out of cages and had a steady home, after all they've been through. Sounds like they settled in well. They did a good job, repelling that intruder, is how the dogs looked at it. Now they're gonna die, due to the stupidity of that rescue. Because they supposedly have a "temperament problem." They were "bred for attacking people."
Consider my mind on a major .
flick 100785
I think they ought to disband the shelter that sent that volunteer over there, and jail the volunteer and her ... the foster family said she could pick up the dog when they weren't home, they're too stupid to have dogs.

I heartily disagree with all of the above. The dogs probably hadn't exhibited any signs of aggression at that point and its highly likely that the foster volunteer asked the shelter volunteer to come get this dog. Its not an uncommon occurrence for volunteers to help each other out like that. And no matter what anyone says that lady did not deserve an attack and, based on info from the foster volunteer, very likely had no reason to suspect she'd meet with trouble.
These dogs were *rescues.* Nobody can have any idea how well they were socialized. They've only been in contact with ... territory against intruders when the owners weren't there. That's NORMAL. It isn't a temperament problem, and it isn't some aberration.

You think its normal for dogs to pack attack an intruder who probably knew their names and presented no threat to them? I agree that alot of dogs will guard and bite an intruder but not all or nearly all so I wouldn't classify attack behavior as normal.
J effin C. This rescue group works with dogs and has no frickin' idea how dogs behave. Poor dogs. They ... due to the stupidity of that rescue. Because they supposedly have a "temperament problem." They were "bred for attacking people."

For all anyone knows they could have been bred for that. Its not uncommon to find attack dogs, bred & raised to be attack dogs, in very poor areas of cities. Some of the hardest hit areas where dogs were left behind were very poor areas. There's no way to know but I don't think there's quite enough information to feel as strongly as you do about shutting down a shelter and jailing volunteers.

Tara
You think its normal for dogs to pack attack an intruder who probably knew their names and presented no threat ... will guard and bite an intruder but not all or nearly all so I wouldn't classify attack behavior as normal.

We don't have any idea how well, or if at all, those dogs knew the volunteer. She may have had only brief contact with them, or none. If she knew them at the initial shelter, where they were caged and surrounded by other frightened dogs, they might associate her with an unpleasant experience and fear her. Even if they'd known her at the first shelter and liked her, they were now in a new home, and wouldn't necessarily consider her to be part of their "pack" any more. Therefore, she was an intruder. Entering the territory of a dog, and you're an intruder (to the dog), yes, that's threatening. They aren't people and don't reason like we do.

Plus, if you think a lot of dogs will do it, how can it not be normal? It's as normal as the sun rising in the east. Heh, most dogs never get the opportunity to bite an intruder, because bad guys avoid dogs like the plague.
For all anyone knows they could have been bred for that. Its not uncommon to find attack dogs, bred & ... think there's quite enough information to feel as strongly as you do about shutting down a shelter and jailing volunteers.

Normal dogs are territorial, to a greater or lesser degree. Some people would rather train that out of their dogs; I don't. But none of my dogs were raised or bred to be attack dogs. If you enter my femce if I'm not home, I think you'll get hurt. If I'm here and accompanying you, you can come in and walk right past 'em. Most of them will wag their tails and beg for petting, except the 2 shy ones.
A dog is a hero if it saves its owner from an intruder. Purina gives that dog a medal. Well, that's what these dogs thought they were doing. It's a more pronounced instinct, IME, when you've got more than one. I am of the opinion, and I've stated it before, that it's unnatural to take dogs to dog parks and expect them to play nice with all the other dogs - who aren't part of their "pack." Dogs aren't moving stuffed animals on the end of a leash. They have instincts and behaviors, y'know. One of those is territoriality. Another is pack behavior.
JMO, the fact that they didn't bark when she showed up at that house should have alerted her NOT to go in, if they weren't wagging and acting happy to see her. Dogs that aren't afraid, aren't barking. They aren't alerting their pack, they are gonna handle it. I would not have entered that yard. I betcha that they both stood there alert and watched her and stared.

One of them was recently neutered. Takes about 3 months for the hormones to get out. The dog that most frequently bites is an *unneutered male.* I wonder if the other dog was a recently-spayed female. There's just all kinds of reasons that this incident could have been human error and not due to dogs that were "bred to attack." And there's so much human error around, that's the direction I'm leaning, until I learn otherwise.

flick 100785
I think they ought to disband the shelter that sent ... when they weren't home, they're too stupid to have dogs.

I heartily disagree with all of the above. The dogs probably hadn't exhibited any signs of aggression at that point and its highly likely that the foster volunteer asked the shelter volunteer to come get this dog.

Doesn't matter, IMO. It would just highlight the fact that there's more than one stupid person involved here.
A multiplicity of stupidity, if you will.
Its not an uncommon occurrence for volunteers to help each other out like that.

Yes! Stupid people help each other out all the time!

That's why we have a virtual epidemic of stupidity today!
And no matter what anyone says that lady did not deserve an attack and, based on info from the foster volunteer, very likely had no reason to suspect she'd meet with trouble.

Straw man! No one remotely suggested that this lady deserved to get bitten, but Murphy's Law notwithstanding, that's exactly what happens sometimes when stupid people do stupid things.
Invading a home (which is probably the way these dogs were looking at it) with two dogs in it, is a pretty stupid thing to do, IMO. Invading a home with two dogs in it, that no one really knows anything about (temperament-wise), is even stupider. And invading a home with two dogs in it, that no one really knows anything about, and where one of them has just had an operation and may be experiencing PAIN, is really, really stupid, IMO.
And IMO, humans should start taking responsibility for the stupid things they do.
These dogs were *rescues.* Nobody can have any idea how ... It isn't a temperament problem, and it isn't some aberration.

You think its normal for dogs to pack attack an intruder who probably knew their names and presented no threat to them?

Too many assumptions there. Given these same circumstances, and the realization that this had to be a very stressful time for these two dogs, a smart person would at least have taken the necessary precautions first.
And yes, it should be considered perfectly normal, IMO, for two dogs to respond exactly the way they responded here.
I agree that alot of dogs will guard and bite an intruder but not all or nearly all so I wouldn't classify attack behavior as normal.

That's just the point. No one knew a thing about these two dogs. And that fact alone should have triggered a smart person to take precautions.
If you don't believe me, ask your local AC officer how he/she would have handled the same situation.
He/she's been TRAINED to expect the worst, and to prepare for it. That's why they rarely get bitten.
J effin C. This rescue group works with dogs and ... have a "temperament problem." They were "bred for attacking people."

For all anyone knows they could have been bred for that.

Exactly my point!
So why take any chances???

But even if they weren't bred to attack, many perfectly "normal" breeds, many perfectly "normal" dogs, under these same extenuating circumstances, could have been, and should have been, expected to respond as they did.
There's no way to know but I don't think there's quite enough information to feel as strongly as you do about shutting down a shelter and jailing volunteers.

Well, if they're part of the problem and not part of the solution, that's exactly what should be done here.
Yep, that's still my opinion, and I'm still stickin' to it.
Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
Saddam Hussein: The Left's New Mumia?
http://newsbusters.org/node/2353
()
There's no way to know but I don't think there's ... you do about shutting down a shelter and jailing volunteers.

Well, if they're part of the problem and not part of the solution, that's exactly what should be done here.

Okay, maybe not jailed.
But certainly sent to bed without any supper!

Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
Saddam Hussein: The Left's New Mumia?
http://newsbusters.org/node/2353
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