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There is absolutely the aspect that when dogs are made ... chances they will behave in a more socially acceptable manner.

i think that's the key.

This is what I've been trying to say, too. :}
it's up to people to review whether or not their life style is compatible with dog owernship too, rather than try to force-fit the animal into their lifecyle by buying stuff that enables them to leave dogs on their own most of the time.

There's another side to this, though.
If the only people who have dogs are the ones who have somebody home during the day, then there would be far too few homes available and the shelters would explode.
I agree that people should be more responsible about the decision between a puppy and an older dog. If they are unable to properly raise a puppy, they may be able to provide a decent home for a rescue. Sleeping in a comfortable house all day and hanging out with your human under the computer at night is perfectly peachy for a lot of older dogs, and far preferable to any previous living situation.
You can really mess up a puppy by leaving it alone all the time. But even then, with the right level of commitment, you can make it workable. I'm sure there are plenty of rpdb posters who have successfully raised puppies while working full-time. You come home for lunch, or arrange for a dog-walker. You forget about TV and computer games for a while to ensure that the pup gets quality time whenever you are home. You take him to classes, out to parks, visiting friends, stores like PetsMart, etc.
Of course you should make an effort to keep an older dog active, too. But it's not as critical as it is for a puppy.
I have an ex-sister-in-law (who is also an ex-mother-in-law, don't ask :} who would buy a puppy, put it in a crate, and forget she had it. To housebreak, she would open the kitchen door and send it outside alone (and unfenced). When she remembered it was out there, she'd call it in and put it back into the crate. The crate was in the kitchen. The family watched TV in the living room. Then when the puppy became a dog, unhousebroken, unsocialized, completely untrained, she'd give it away (if it survived) and get another puppy.
This sucks so bad it turns itself inside out.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
You're about my age. When did dogs "run in the streets"? We haddogs in the neighborhood I grew up in, ... going on, impregnations (Ok, thatcould classify as a form of "friendly"), etc. This was in pretty average'burbs in the 60's.

We had a few dogs running around on our estate in the sixties but mostly mutts, not many of us could afford pedigrees. It varied; the rougher the estate, the more dogs were loose.
It was safer for dogs and children then.
Alison
So there are dog parks, classes, sports, interactive toys. Thereare stores

like PetsMart, where you can expose your dog to many differentpeople and dogs under controlled circumstances. It came naturally then, it takes an more of an effort now.

People start off with the best intentions and I don't think they realise how hard it can be. They see all these marvously behaved dogs on TV and films and expect their dog to be like that. In the Sixth Sense film (brilliantly scary), the mother had two jobs and never had time for her son yet they had this perfectly behaved cute puppy , it never made a mess or chewed anything . I don't recall it ever being walked or even fed:(
Alison
Like people with (*&*(*(*) flexi-leashes letting their dogs round corners and up aisles, at other people and dogs? Like dog urine a the base of displays? Like dog saliva all over the botom level toys and bones?

I wouldn't exactly consider the average PM experience to be controlled. I find most of the patrons and their dog's behavior pretty annoying.

Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com /
they were evidently with people. I'd guess that if someone was being followed continually by a stray dog they'd notice and react to that!

I guess so, and stray dogs don't usually follow people do they? unless they are being encouraged by the person or the person has food etc.
the Sixth Sense film (brilliantly scary), the mother had two jobs and never had time for her son yet they ... , it never made a mess or chewed anything . I don't recall it ever being walked or even fed:(

Oh, wow, that's one of my all-time favorite movies. Brilliantly written, directed, and acted, IMHO.
But I never noticed that before about the puppy. You're right!

Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
Oh, wow, that's one of my all-time favorite movies. Brilliantlywritten, directed, and acted, IMHO.

Did you guess the ending? I saw it on TV; I could never have watched it on the big screen. It scared the crap out of me. The Exocist scared the crap out of me too.
But I never noticed that before about the puppy. You're right! >>

I always notice the animals and I always worry about them! Alison
Did you guess the ending?

Nope. When I watched it the 2nd time, I purposely looked for foreshadowing, and there was plenty. But it was so well done that I didn't pick up on any of it.
The Exocist scared the crap out of me too.

I saw that with two male friends. One sat on either side of me in the theatre, and both would grab my arm at the same time during the scary parts. So I was too busy being amused to be frightened. :}
When we were walking out to the car, the two of them were "wow" ing and "didjasee" ing to each other, and neither noticed that I hadn't said a word. Finally they turned to me and said, "What did you think?"

I adopted the most psychotic look I could and began to scream at them in the "possessed" voice.
They both jumped two feet. :}
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
You're about my age. When did dogs "run in the streets"? We had dogs in the neighborhood I grew up ... impregnations (Ok, that could classify as a form of "friendly"), etc. This was in pretty average 'burbs in the 60's.

When I was growing up, there was a lot more dog roaming going on, but the results were more as you describe. There was a Newfoundland who basically lounged around in the owner's front yard inside (yes, inside is the best way to describe it the poor thing was probably really hot outside in SoCal weather) a favorite hedge. I can still recall trying to figure out how he got his big self in there. He was a big sweetie who never bothered anyone. The family's other dog was known for chasing cars and knocking over trash cans. He liked other dogs and every person in the neighborhood, but the adults in the neighborhood hated him. Another dog was known for knocking kids off bikes.Our next door neighbor had a GSD that never roamed but barked constantly. The owners kept her locked in a small dog run that was on the side of their house that was away from their bedroom but next to my parent's bedroom side of our house. She was not well loved by my dad, who had to get up early every morning. I don't think she was very well loved by her owners, or they would have done more for her. She was a terror to us kids the one time she did get out.

We were scared of her even when she was in her run. She could see our backyard from her run and seemed to think that it was her yard. She would try to run us off our own property whenever we were playing out there. Poor thing was probably neurotic with no family interaction (I never saw the run without her in it and they were never in there with her except for the bare minimum it took to fill food and water bowls), matted fur, way too much to feel responsible for protecting and nothing but trouble for the job she was doing of it.
The immediate neighborhood I live in now does not put up with roaming dogs. If they know where a dog escaped from, most of the neighbors will knock on a door rather than call AC, but they don't think being out all the time is okay. There is a more rural dog roaming type neighborhood not far from here. The dogs I've seen there range from happy go lucky to constantly scrapping and from people loving to people scaring (sometimes both), but I don't really know enough to know what the average dog there is like or what the average human there thinks of the situation.

I know parvo is really common out there because I work with kids who live there who are constantly losing dogs to it. It may not always be the case, but lack of immunization seems to be more common among roaming dogs even though it is even more important to have dogs who are out and about immunized.

Paula
Give a man a fish and he asks you for a lemon.
Teach a man to fish and he leaves work early on Fridays. (Karlo Takki's personal philosophy stolen from someone's .sig)
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