I've been lurking in this group for a while, getting nuggets of advice here and there, and I can't help but notice the dogmatic attitude the majority of the participants have towards the breeding of our masters. ) It was made explicit in the recent thread about "breading", but it was apparent in other threads too. Dogmatism, however, is never good.

For some reason, this dogma assumes that all cats are equal, and if you want a kitten, go to the shelter where they're overflowing. Would that be the same advice you would give to people that want to have children, and would you yourself practice it? After all, the planet has more than enough people, more than can be sustained, in fact, and the orphanages and the third world countries are overflowing with unwanted kids, whose fate you can only improve. So sterilize yourself, (or don't have children), and adopt. If you have done so, and if this is the advice you're giving to wannabe parents, then I submit - you have all the right to advocate the same for cats. If you haven't however, please STFU.
The responsible attitude, as I see it, is not to let the kitties breed indiscriminately - far from it - but to treat each on a case by case basis. Don't spay/neuter the kitty until they are let's say 2 years old, before considering if they are really that special kitty that deserves having one litter. After all, they are /not/ created equal, and not each is cute, smart, affectionate, healthy and playful. The same way one would not adopt just any kitty from a shelter, and would skip the ugly, dumb, sick and inferior (and most often would /not/ find one worth adoption), one should give a chance to your pet, if (s)he has the qualities that you like.

In that case, if you have secured homes for the eventual kittens with acquaintances that have been charmed by your kitty's qualities and that want to have a similar one, find a suitably fine mate, and let them have a litter. If however, you can't guarantee homes for the litter, or if the kitty is not up to par (and I admit that this is the hardest thing to decide, for they are like our children, and it is very difficult to see and admit their faults), then of course, visit the vet.

But after that, love them doubly, if possible, to compensated for the potential offspring that you have destroyed, essentially killing them (in the grand scheme of things).
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Suddenly, without warning, Dragoman exclaimed (8/14/2009 9:04 PM):
I've been lurking in this group for a while, getting nuggets of advice here and there, and I can't help ... I submit - you have all the right to advocate the same for cats. If you haven't however, please STFU.

Actually, I have chosen to not have children, and have occasionally suggested adopting rather than bringing more children in to the world. Been called deviant for not having kids, too. Seriously.

So, thank you for allowing me, as an American, to keep my first amendment rights Emotion: smile
I'm not as militant as some, but I still advocate not breeding unless you truly have exceptional, pedigreed cats (if nobody at all bred cats, and they were all spayed or neutered, they'd go extinct, after all).

I'm a horsewoman as well, where the problem is magnified, and I believe even stables who's primary business is breeding, should concentrate on training and give the mares a break while the economy sucks, rather than producing more unsellable horses.
Right now, we don't need more cats, dogs, horses, or humans.

jmc
I've been lurking in this group for a while

Apparently, Drag, you are nym-shifting or you are new to USENET. The "STFU" comment suggests that you are new to USENET (or maybe just trolling).
I can't help but notice the dogmatic attitude the majority of the participants have towards the breeding For some reason, ... shelter where they're overflowing. Would that be the same advice you would give to people that want to have children

But of course there is a big difference, Drag. Whether you pick up a cat from a shelter or from a breeder, in either case you are not bearing a child.
and would you yourself practice it? After all, the planet has more than enough people, more than can be sustained, in fact, and the orphanages and the third world countries are overflowing with unwanted kids

At this point, I might argue about the fact that we human beings are in control of our own population.
After all, they are /not/ created equal

In your opinion, Drag.
and not each is cute, smart, affectionate, healthy and playful.

They might be different, but almost all cats make good pets, if you know how to manage them. The only exception I have experienced is with my current feral female, but she is clearly mentally ill.
The same way one would not adopt just any kitty from a shelter, and would skip the ugly, dumb, sick and inferior

To each his own, Drag. I do not adopt cats from a shelter, I take them directly off of the street. The only qualification is that the cat appears to be in need and that I have room/time for another.
Suddenly, without warning, Dragoman exclaimed (8/14/2009 9:04 PM):

For some reason, this dogma assumes that all cats are ... the same for cats. If you haven't however, please STFU.

Actually, I have chosen to not have children, and have occasionally suggested adopting rather than bringing more children in to the world. Been called deviant for not having kids, too. Seriously.

If that's really the case, as I said, I can't argue with you. You win by default. Emotion: smile
So, thank you for allowing me, as an American, to keep my first amendment rights Emotion: smile

I don't think this concerns exactly the First amendment, but you're welcome. Emotion: smile
Right now, we don't need more cats, dogs, horses, or humans.

That's true, but we can at least exercise some kind of control on who exactly has offspring. Right now, it seems, in all species except horses, it's the least desirable ones. You have the right to disagree about it, of course - I know nothing about horses.
I've been lurking in this group for a while

Apparently, Drag, you are nym-shifting or you are new to USENET. The "STFU" comment suggests that you are new to USENET (or maybe just trolling).

First of all, it is 'Drago'. Second, what a ridiculous comment. STFU has a long-lasting noble pedigree on Usenet, just like RTFM.
For some reason, this dogma assumes that all cats are ... you would give to people that want to have children

But of course there is a big difference, Drag. Whether you pick up a cat from a shelter or from a breeder, in either case you are not bearing a child.

You are not bearing a child when you pick one up from an orphanage either. What's your point?
After all, they are /not/ created equal

In your opinion, Drag.

Well, they are not. It's not a matter of opinion, just the way things are. Natural selection wouldn't work if everybody was equal.
The same way one would not adopt just any kitty from a shelter, and would skip the ugly, dumb, sick and inferior

To each his own, Drag. I do not adopt cats from a shelter, I take them directly off of the street. The only qualification is that the cat appears to be in need and that I have room/time for another.

This is so only if your goal is a quixotic quest to save all cats. Mine (and I believe most cat lovers') is not. I don't want to save all cats, I just want to find the one that will be my friend and companion, and such are rare and far between. You are not friends with all people you know either; why should it be any different with cats?
I've been lurking in this group for a while, getting nuggets of advice here and there, and I can't help but notice the dogmatic attitude the

Yes this holier than thow attitude will get you nowhere for sure. Bunch of tree-hugging hippies.
Hardy
Apparently, Drag, you are nym-shifting or you are new to USENET. The "STFU" comment suggests that you are new to USENET (or maybe just trolling).

First of all, it is 'Drago'. Second, what a ridiculous comment. STFU has a long-lasting noble pedigree on Usenet, just like RTFM.

That is silly rhetoric, Drag. Anyway... Is trolling the reason you are nym-shifting?
But of course there is a big difference, Drag. Whether ... breeder, in either case you are not bearing a child.

You are not bearing a child when you pick one up from an orphanage either. What's your point?

That was my point, Drag, apparently you are having trouble following your own line of reasoning.
In your opinion, Drag.

Well, they are not. It's not a matter of opinion, just the way things are. Natural selection wouldn't work if everybody was equal.

We are not talking about natural selection, Drag, we are talking about a personal choice. By the way... Where do you usually post under other nyms, Drag?
To each his own, Drag. I do not adopt cats ... be in need and that I have room/time for another.

This is so only if your goal is a quixotic quest to save all cats.

But in fact, Drag, I know that is not possible. I do not try to save all cats. Like you, they are for companionship. The difference is that I choose to kill two birds with one stone, by taking in a cat(s) that is in need.
I just want to find the one that will be my friend and companion, and such are rare and far between.

That sounds like a personal problem (or just more silly trollish rhetoric) to me, Drag.
You are not friends with all people you know either; why should it be any different with cats?

To paraphrase Will Rogers "I love a cat because he does nothing for political reasons".
You are not bearing a child when you pick one up from an orphanage either. What's your point?

Children are picked up from orphanages? Oh Happy Day! Where are these orphanages and how might I pick up a child from one? I thought that adopting a child was very difficult and expensive, but you have given me hope!
Please tell me, where are these orphanages?
Suddenly, without warning, Dragoman exclaimed (8/14/2009 9:04 PM):

I've been lurking in this group for a while, getting ... the same for cats. If you haven't however, please STFU.

Actually, I have chosen to not have children, and have occasionally suggested adopting rather than bringing more children in to ... economy sucks, rather than producing more unsellable horses. Right now, we don't need more cats, dogs, horses, or humans. jmc

and the pope should endorse homosexuality to reduce the burden on mother earth, especially in south america, india and china.
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