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When I was growing up a neighbor had a mean yellow dog that he let run sometimes. Chased cars, tried to chase people etc. It came at me straight on once, snarling. I kicked it as hard as I could under the lower jaw. (Somewhat of a lucky shot) and it never bothered me or anyone I was with again.
I do not believe in cruelty to animals, but I do believe in self defense.

I know you don't always have the choice when you get an older animal, but any animal I get when it is young will submit to being handled. There are just too many times it is necessary over a lifetime. And my vets have always greatly appreciated it.

Our neighbor accross the street has a pit bull. And it is always in their back yard. But gates do get left open. I was outside when the dog got out and came after my dog. The owner called it down and it dropped in its tracks and just laid there. I do really love a well trained dog.
Jo
I'm so glad you and your husband got out of the situation unharmed. You really knew how to react.
Best wishes,

Polonca & Soncek
> I have my own scary dog encounter, and would like to ask your opinion.
Wow! Kudos for keeping your wits in a bad situation, Krista ;-) I do believe in the *no* command, virtually every dog has heard it. I understand trained guard dogs and I know the police dogs for the Air Force are sometimes trained to respond to commands in German. If pressed, I think I could manage ;-)On the practical side and I offer this with some trepidation I am convinced I can kill a dog, with my bare hands, if I am ever seriously attacked, and I am determined to do so. If you are a fan of the movie Outlaw Josie Wales you'll recall the scene where Wales is describing how the people must fight for their lives, admonishing them that they must "...get mad dog mean..." to survive. Animals have a mouth full of teeth and are fast. We, however, have a better brain and can think in stratigic and tactical terms.

Predictably, a trained dog will likely go for an arm, as we've seen in films of police training. I believe it possible to break a dogs neck, if it takes your forearm. The method would be a variation of a killing, hand to hand combat tactic, I picked up from a book on the subject from WWII. In the case of killing an enemy combatant, the method is to get your forearm under the chin of an opponent, from behind. Once you have your arm under the chin, you hook your hand into the crook of the elbow, of your other arm, with the hand of that arm at the back of the head.

Once you have achieved this grip (it's rather simple, really), you step back allowing the weight of the person to bear on the neck, as you bend the head/neck forward, toward the chest. Applying that same principle to an attacking dog, let him have the forearm, place your free hand just behind its head, grip your forearm, step back and bend the dog's head back over its body. I haven't tried it, so can't say for sure it would work. However, once when my 130 pound German Shepard and I were playing, he had his mouth wrapped around my arm.

I very gently took the hold I've described and simply held him, to get some assessment of the practical usefullness of the tactic if ever needed. He was greatly distressed by the situation, and I can guarantee I didn't hurt him even in the slightest.
Likely dogs have never encountered a creature with fists, so wouldn't have a clue about what they can do. Actually, if you believe some of the kung-foo nonsence, I suppose you can stop a tank. An attacking dog would be vulnerable to a blow to the throat. I'd hit with my fist and as hard as I could manage mad dog mean, remember? The idea would be to crush the windpipe/larynx and, if it doesn't work the first time, try it again. A blow to that area is quite painful anyway, and, if you do manage to crush those vital structures, the amimal will likely die..certainly ought to take some of the enthusiasm out of them.Then there is the matter of the eyes. In our era of sanitized *G* rated staged for TV fights, nobody gouges eyes out. For that reason, I doubt anybody would think of disabling an opponent by blinding them. Eyes are well protected by bone structure from slashing attacks but, a thumb (use the thumbs) driven straight into the corner of the eye, then pressed outward toward the side, would be painful and, if done with the determination the situation warrants, would dislodge the eye from the socket.

If the loss of one eye doesn't discourage the beast, take out the other and your now blinded opponent should be completely at your mercy. Otherwise, I would advise giving the idea of how you can fight back some thought. What can you do, and how you would do it? A kick to the chest can be very dangerous, you know. People have been killed because their hearts have been stopped by such a blow, why not a dog? Also, in my case, I can imagine a situation where I might grab a dog by a hind leg and sling it against the pavement.

But I have the size and strength to do that, while you may not. The problem gets simpler if there are two of you and only one attacking dog. If the dog is attacking your friend, you can kick it in the chest as hard as you can. In the alternative, you might be able to get on its back and get your forearm around the neck, to strangle it. If a dog were attacking you, your friend might be able to grab a hind leg and pull it away, then bash its brains out by swinging it overhead and against the ground.I should also mention I've carried a pocket knife for many years, but have never thought of it as a weapon, obviously, since I'm just now getting around to it. Mine happens to be what's called a stockman's model, with a 3" blade, that's as sharp as a razor, literally. It will split a single hair (long boring story behind that) and, should I ever think of it, when attacked by a dog or any other creature, the affair will be settled in a hurry, if I can get it into action, as it would require both hands to open it.

However, the state of the art now is pocket knives which can be opened with one hand. The ones I've seen, which would be suitable for defensive purposes, have a button on the blade which allows you to swing the blade open with the thumb, while holding the handle, with one hand. As far as I know, pocket knives are legal in every state and local of the US. You should be able to locate something suitable at a gun shop, sporting goods store, shopping center, etc.

Thus armed (tools and brains are why we're at the top of the FC) whether you stab an attacking animal or cut it's throat becomes a matter of personal preference and opportunity. There is also a thing called a *bear bomb,* which dischrges a cloud of pepper gas. If you are thinking those little canisters of tear gas hanging on hooks at the stores you frequent, they're rather harmless, I understand, and not what I'm talking about. I learned about the things in a discussion on a Canadian news group where the subject of bear attacks came up.

We were knocking around a situation where an inexperienced fellow wanted to know if a 9mm pistol would be sufficient protection against a Grizzly bear (in fact it's suicidal) and several of the Canadians advocated the use of a bear bomb. Apparently they are available in the US, presumably in bear country, and one fellow described the effectiveness by relating his watching a video of a bear, running away from a group, diving under water repeatedly, as it swam away down stream.

I would offer that a device which would turn a Grizzly would do the job with just about any other critter around, regardless of whether having two or four legs, which might annoy you ;-) Weapons can also be improvised and the bar of soap, in the sock, is a classic. It makes a pretty fair blackjack. Also ball point pens or pencils can be used to stab. Give it some thought and I'm certain you can work out some contingency plans that will serve you well, should the situation ever come up again.

Of course, in the final analysis, one can always kneel down, in the fetal position, protecting the neck and throat, with the hands clasped behind the head and arms held close to the body. Such would be against my combative nature and assuredly the last thing I would do, but supposedly it is how one can survive a bear attack. Speaking of which, you have heard about this advisory put out by the state of Montana, haven't you?
**Bear Advisory**
Due to the growing number of people recreating in remote and wilderness areas, the incidents of encounters with bears are increasing. Accordingly, the Montana Department of Natural Resources is issuing this advisory, in the interest of public safety.
Given the opportunity, bears will avoid contact with humans, if they know they are about. For this reason, many hikers and campers, will afix little bells to their clothing to announce their presence to wildlife in the area.
When in bear country, people should also be alert to signs that bears are near. Black bear scat will resemble that of a domestic dog and contain bits of fur and berries. Grizzly bear scat will contain bits of clothing and little bells.
Cheers, Krista ;-)
Jack
PS Regarding your concern for humans remaining at the top of the food chain, I think we can manage it for awhile longer yet.
(snipped)
**Bear Advisory** Due to the growing number of people recreating in remote and wilderness areas, the incidents of encounters with ... for humans remaining at the top of the food chain, I think we can manage it for awhile longer yet.

ROFL! I love the bear advisory! I will forward that, if you don't mind.
I do have a pocket knife on my keychain, but it is a tiny thing I use for zipping open boxes, etc.; maybe I should get a bigger one. And some of us do think of eyes - I am a smoker and it has occurred to me what an effective deterrent a lit cigarette in the eye would be.

Thanks for the thought provoking post - I am hoping not to have to worry about my position on the food chain, though. :-)

Krista
**Bear Advisory** Due to the growing number of people recreating ... I think we can manage it for awhile longer yet.

ROFL! I love the bear advisory! I will forward that, if you don't mind.

Be my guest. I stole it from someone else ;-) JB
I do have a pocket knife on my keychain, but it is a tiny thing I use for zipping open boxes, etc.; maybe I should get a bigger one.

Yup. Go shopping. I think you'll like what you find. JB

And
some of us do think of eyes - I am a smoker and it has occurred to me what an effective deterrent a lit cigarette in the eye would be.

Hmm.. In the practical application, it might be too slow, vice the thrust of the thumb. For sure, you're not going to have time to light up ;-)) JB
Thanks for the thought provoking post - I am hoping not to have to worry about my position on the food chain, though. :-)

Hope it gives you some food for thought and peace of mind. Actually, when I hear about cases where dogs have killed someone, such as the woman attacked for 15 minutes in her California appartment building, I'm convinced they didn't fight back.
Cheers,
Jack
Hope it gives you some food for thought and peace of mind. Actually, when I hear about cases where dogs have killed someone, such as the woman attacked for 15 minutes in her California appartment building, I'm convinced they didn't fight back.

Are you talking about the San Francisco woman who was mauled to death by a pit bull in the hallway of her building, just as she was at her front door? The dog that was trained as a fighting dog, along with many others, by the woman who was with the dog at that time? (Actually, I'm not sure the woman herself actually trained the fighting dogs, but she was involved with the people who did it, and she and her husband were taking care of two of those dogs.)
This case was all over the news for about 2 years in the Bay Area. The woman who died was unarmed and pretty much defenseless against an aggressive, strong, well-trained pit bull.
Mind you, I don't believe all pit bulls are evil - not by a long shot. I've met many who were very sweet and lovable. But they're really strong dogs, with very strong jaws, and if they're trained to be aggressive, they're very dangerous, and can certainly kill a person, regardless of whether the person fights back. And anyway, even if the person dies because they didn't fight back, the dog could still be dangerous to others. Many people don't know they might be able to fight a dog off. So the same thing could happen to any number of people.

Joyce
Mind you, I don't believe all pit bulls are evil - not by a long shot. I've met many who were very sweet and lovable.

Nikki once scratched a pit bull's nose when it got too close to her. I'm glad it hadn't been trained to be aggressive. It had just been chosen the "most beautiful pit bull" of the year at some show or other, and its owners never spoke to me again after Nikki had marred its "beauty". ;o)

Marina
(snipped) Hmm.. In the practical application, it might be too slow, vice the thrust of the thumb. For sure, you're not going to have time to light up ;-)) JB Cheers, Jack

I wasn't planning on lighting a cigarette - that would require an awfully patient attacker! I was assuming I'd have an already lit cigarette in hand, which is always quite likely. :-)

Krista