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"NOT impossible?" can you give some more insight? one thing i notice, Quaker vs 'tiel is that the tiels don't crap in food as much, or crap as often. the Quaker was an eating machine and i learned the meaning of, 'crap thru a goose'.

My U2 is pretty much housebroke. When she begins to get antsy and says "up,Up" it is time to take her back to her cage. (She could fly there, but she won't waste the energy when she has a well trained human taxi). She has never messed on a person. She has moved off me and gone on the floor if I haven't been paying attention to her. Come to think of it, my CAG has never messed on me either. Both birds prefer to go back to their cage or playstand to mess.

Debbie, Dusty (CAG) and Casperella (U2)
Yep, very true, I think my favourite RAH has got to be ' The Door into Summer' I would rank it in his top 3, but it never gained the recognition it deserved, it was OP for quite a few years in the UK, and I am glad to say that a close friend was partly responsible for getting it re-issued in '86 in the UK. definitely one of his best in my opinion and still well read considering it's almost 50 years old.
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Ian,
I'll have to look for it. Have you had the chance to read the uncut version of "Stranger?"
Herman
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That's good to hear. It's "bad enough" when a 'Tiel makes a dropping, but they're nothing in comparison to their larger cousins. . .;-)

Herman
"NOT impossible?" can you give some more insight? one thing ... and i learned the meaning of, 'crap thru a goose'.

My U2 is pretty much housebroke. When she begins to get antsy and says "up,Up" it is time to take ... Both birds prefer to go back to their cage or playstand to mess. Debbie, Dusty (CAG) and Casperella (U2)

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Herman
No, I read Stranger quite a few years ago now, I'm not totally sure if I want to read the uncut version... not sure if an extra 300 pages almost is going to change it to something I would have as much respect for. I have been in the book trade for over 20 years and in that time have read some very strange SF etc to say the least. I was always more into Fantasy/Horror but had the opportunity to read some amazing SF during that time and meet a lot of well respected authors. I think my overall favourite SF author's would have to be between Harry Harrison (50.1%) and Niven/Pournelle(49.9%) way close!! I'd personally rate RAH in my top 5 SF though..not quite sure where though :-)
Ian
I was out mt biking for the day, 10 hours max..
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Ian,
I'd have to agree with ya that RAH is in the top 5, and I've got to say that like you I'm not sure just where either.

I've read both versions and honsetly I really didn't see much of a differance between the two of them.
A couple of years back I "picked" up Audible.com audio version of "Friday" and had to laugh cause they've got a man reading it. . .

Herman
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my Quaker never got out, tho it tried, it was heavy, large "California" cage, the lock was not used. BUT he is quite small for that cage. i was more worried about the bar spacing.
however, he could open my watch clasp in 2seconds flat(!) and did so regularly. this is the steel fold back clasp that isn't easy, even for humans, to release. the first time he did it (one of the few personal items he could not harm) i encouraged him to do it again and he did!
after that, it became a game at play time which he never tired of. Loren
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Loren,
That can cause as many problems as a cage from which a bird can easily open the door. A friend of mine down in Fl who recently acquired a baby 'Keet read a posting in a mailinglist for 'Keets about how someone had lost their 'Keet. Cause it was able to squeeze through the bars and get free (they thought that this was CUTE). They also allowed their 'Keet to "snuggle" with their dog.

Well they came home one day, and found a pile of feathers. It seems that their 'Keet did his escape routine, and either landed on/by/near the family dog and yep, the dog being a dog. Made a "Scooby snack" out of the poor thing.
Here is the E-Mail from my friend:
I just read the following message in one of the mailing lists I belong to for parakeets (budgies). So sad, and I really do feel sorry for the lady but she was NOT very smart about this..

I have been reading this group for the past 7 months. I had a cobalt blue male budgie named Simon. He was wonderful. He was only about 6 weeks old when I got him. Within a week he was tame enough to step up on my hand and come out of his cage.
He had a great cage...my daughter called it the birdie condo. I have a rather large family (five children) and he mostly enjoyed being out of his
cage. He was, for some reason, on the small side and could escape the cage when he wanted (it was a tight squeeze, but he made it even though the bars were only 1/2 inch apart). So, to avoid a bad situation, we just kept the door open during the day since someone was always home. We closed it, and covered the cage at night.

Simon would sit on my shoulder and give my cheek 'kisses'. Unlike a lot of Budgies, Simon liked being held. He LOVED being scratched behind his head. If, when I got home from work I didn't immediately acknowledge him, he would squawk and fly to my head. He began flying around 6 months. There was some discussion between my husband and myself on whether we should have his wings clipped. I really didn't want to. Since he seemed to be managing quite well, we decided to wait and see. He would only fly in the dining room (where his cage was). If we were in the living room, he would swoop a loop over our heads and quickly fly back to his cage (signaling he wanted attention).
We tried to get him to talk, but knew it might be a few more months until he did so, if ever. He was still the best bird ever. He would come when you
called him. He loved climbing things...up the cage stand into his cage (before he could fly, we had ladder for him to climb up). He would climb all over his tree that I made him playing with his toys. He was such a joy.
We also have two dogs, a guinea pig and a gerbil. He loved visiting Patches, the guinea pig. He could easily fit though his cage bars (an inch apart). He would 'preen' Patches. Patches loved the attention. Occasionally, they took naps together.
Simon also loved climbing on one of the dogs, Fae, a Siberian Husky. At first, Fae would just sniff Simon. Then, she didn't even do that whenever
Simon came around. Fae let Simon climb up her leg. They would lay together on the sofa during the afternoon if Simon wasn't preening Patches.
This went on for about 4 months. Never a problem, but we were always around. I had heard you should never let your bird and your dog be together, but they got along very well.
The fourth of July, we went out to our local fireworks and festivities. Since we left in late afternoon, we didn't think about putting Simon to bed.
We didn't get home until nearly 11pm. Simon was gone. There were a few feathers, in a couple different piles, on the floor in the dining room. It
was obvious there had been some conflict. I thought Simon might have gotten hurt and was hiding. We spent two hours searching for him to no avail. I got up early the next morning knowing it was Simon's most active time and hoping I would hear him chirping. I didn't. My fear of the worst was confirmed later in the day after Fae 'did her business' in the back yard.
I don't know what happened. I don't understand why, after months of being 'friends', Fae decided to harm Simon, except for the fact that I forgot that Fae was really just a dog, doing what was instinctual.

I loved Simon very much (as did the rest of my family). It is going to take awhile before I ever get another budgie. But if I do, I will not repeat the
same mistakes.
It has taken me awhile since Simon's death to write this. I still read the newsgroup everyday. I just wanted to warn others who may have their first
bird, to take the advice of the experts. No matter how tame a bird or dog, no matter how well they seem to get along, NEVER let your bird out with the dog around. I learned the hard way. Perhaps I can save some other bird owner the heartache we have experienced.

I would have to say that IF the truly loved her "Simon" that as soon as she noticed that he was able to slip through the bars of his cage that she should have gone out and purchased a new cage with the proper spacing for a 'Keet. Nor would she have allowed herself to "lulled" into a false sense of security by the lack of attention paid to Simon by Fae. As even IF someone was sitting right next to Fae and Simon they wouldn't have been able to move fast enough to have saved Simon IF Fae had decided to make a "Scooby snack" out of Simon.

Out of the four other animals that they have/had in their household at the time I would have to say that only the guinea pig, and gerbil were the safe animals to be with the 'Keet as both animals are also prey animals and not predators by nature.

Herman
my Quaker never got out, tho it tried, it was heavy, large "California" cage, the lock was not used. BUT ... it again and he did! after that, it became a game at play time which he never tired of. Loren

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