re: Collars page 3

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Quote
"and got a bitchy reply "did you even READ the post?""

Bitchy?
Touchy, aren't we?
Perry
I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your dogs especially as they are so small.

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.
If your dogs can not be walked without a choke or "minor corrections " than you cannot consider them to be trained.

She DOESN'T. She says she took them to ONE class, and has had personal issues which have taken her away from training time. Is any dog "trained"? In training is constant.
A dog that is trained will walk politely on a loose lead or to heel regardless of collar type or harness. A clicker is a good way of training a dog to heel.

Only if you want to waste time.

Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Ronna: Well, old methods die hard Emotion: smileThank doG. It's soo predictable that when Perry wrote about how to talk to her husband she got kneejerk reactions to her use of a choke chain. There are legitimate uses of all tools. Sunday I worked with a dominant aggressive dog, a referral from Trish King. This dog had been through Difficult Dog classes at both SFSPCA and Marin HS, and had been made a million times worse by them. Both classes used CC, pushing treats while the dog fired off at other dogs - a reinforcement of the behavior for a dominant aggressive dog.

The 1st tool I reached for was a choke chain because it was the right tool for the dog. 30 minutes of brisk heeling, not allowing him to bump or push and making him sit slightly behind, and he was a different dog. A dog who will be able to stay alive because of the proper use of a choke chain. Yeah, I get a little impatient with people who would limit the use of valid tools because they don't understand how and why they are effective.
Ronna: Well, old methods die hard Emotion: smile Thank doG. It's soo predictable that when Perry wrote about how to talk ... treats while the dog fired off at other dogs - a reinforcement of the behavior for a dominant aggressive dog.

Are there any Jerry fans reading this (Lucy?)? See how effective it is to praise and reward undesired behavior?
Mustang Sally
Jack, you would have loved a seminar I was at recently where the limitations of clicker training were discussed. Lori Drouin is a great trainer, uses food, clickers, positive reinforcement primarily - but she is also a realist. We were working on extended uses of tools and she pointed out the obvious about the click/treat being useless for chained sequences because it directs the dog back to the handler in the middle of the sequence. But she also pointed out something so simply obvious that rang a bell with me - in any behavior where the goal is handler attention, the clicker redirects attention to the treat rather than the handler. Bingo.
Lynn K.
Ronna: Well, old methods die hard Emotion: smile Thank doG. It's ... a reinforcement of the behavior for a dominant aggressive dog.

Are there any Jerry fans reading this (Lucy?)? See how effective it is to praise and reward undesired behavior?


You obviously aren't using the right words when praising.

Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com /
Would "Bull " be the right words, Marcel? Sounds about right to me.
Lynn K.
On 21 Jun 2005 16:47:35 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
Are there any Jerry fans reading this (Lucy?)? See how effective it is to praise and reward undesired behavior?

You obviously aren't using the right words when praising.

But wait, I thought the words didn't matter, that it was just the tone of voice that achieved miraculous results?
Mustang Sally
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Would "Bull " be the right words, Marcel? Sounds about right to me.

I wonder if we spoke ancient ape?? After all, humans (or our ancestors) and dogs (and their wolf "ancestors" according to Lucy) come from the primordial forest. Maybe if we spoke whatever our ancestors spoke at that time, dogs would actually understand us.
Maybe, when dogs are barking at us, they are doing what some people do when they encounter someone who doesn't speak their language. Talk louder and slower. I bet when dogs are barking at us, they are saying:

I..CAN'T..UNDERSTAND..YOU!!
DO...YOU...SPEAK...DOG???

Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com /
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