re: Collars page 8

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Why, yes, he is the crazy one. Glad you finally noticed.[/nq]Of course I've noticed, right from the start: Jerry's the crazy one for having had a great idea, years ahead of the rest of the professionals in his field. Instead of doing what everybody else does, he found a smarter and more humane way to achieve his goals - and, like many great ideas, it was easy to implement and easy to verify. Even a child could train a dog by this method (as a matter of fact, I think that children do get along so well with dogs BECAUSE instinctively they train them according to Jerry's method: treat the dog with respect, earn the dog's trust, and the dog will do ANYTHING you ask).

This wasn't likely to endear him to the experts, who train the dogs the hard way, the way more painful to the trainer and much, much more so to the dog.

Perhaps, if everybody could get a bit of his craziness, people would start to treat the animals they love in a kinder, better way; perhaps they'd even treat their children and their fellow humans in a kinder, better way. But the problem is that Jerry's kind of craziness is scarce - what abounds, is the dull, uninspired and uninspiring stuff that is keeping the psychiatrists all over the world employed full time.

Lucy
Why, yes, he is the crazy one. Glad you finally noticed.

Of course I've noticed, right from the start: Jerry's the crazy one for having had a great idea, years ahead of the rest of the professionals in his field.

Because until Jerry came along, no one on earth had ever thought of training dogs without beating them.
You do realize, of course, that your chances of getting anyone to actually pay attention to you just evaporated with the above statement.

Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com /
So it's entirely possible that even a dumb little *** like Jerry Howe will eventually type something that's right (although I'd bet on the monkeys first). He's sure been at it long enough.

Possible? Yes - stranger things are possible. Likely? No. No way.

The fascinating thing is not that the dogs can be trained in a variety of ways; humans can, too - if you think of it: you can scare them into obedience, you can pay them to work for you, or you can make them want to do what you ask them to do, because they enjoy doing it. And, of course, you can torture them until they break and obey just to put an end to the pain. If you know what motivates a man the most, you can use that thing to make him work for you. One doesn't need to be a genius for that. But you have to be really smart in order to make someone (be it man or dog) to work for you just for the fun of it.
Lucy, all training methods have advantages and disadvantages. And the best trainers know when and how to use the right tool for the right JOB, so that the tool's advantages (e.g., speed) can be leveraged and its disadvantages (e.g., degree of difficulty) mitigated.
I see your point, but here we're talking of a different concept. If I am a slave owner, I can force my slaves to work for me; if they don't, I have the option to inflict various degrees of physical and/or emotional pain on them. I can even kill them. They know that and they obey. Of course, there are the odd ones who'd rather die than do as I say, but they are not the majority: so my method works.

Sometimes, I can even find a slave that enjoys, say, singing - so I don't have to beat him in order to make him sing. Others are more motivated by food - for an extra plate they'll do the extra work. And, since they are slaves and their welfare depends entirely on me, they cannot have much choice, in the end. I can make their life somewhat easier, or a lot easier, but they are still my slaves.
What do you think would happen, no matter what method I employ to get them do what I want, the moment they have even the slightest chance to disobey? Are they going to do their job, or run away, or even turn on me and try to kill me? Perhaps their choice depends to a great degree on the kind of master I am, but my guess is that, as long as they are SLAVES, they'd try to run away the moment the opportunity arises.

Now, if - of my own free will - I choose to give up my slave-owner's rights and set them free, is there a way to make them still stick with me and work for me? Suppose I never punish them, but treat them with respect - not exactly as my equals, because we're not yet living in that kind of society (there are still slaves and slave-owners everywhere) and I am the one who gives them shelter and food and clothes and medical care when they need it, but other than that, they are free to do what they want, go wherever they want... If I don't HAVE the option to force them to work, is it possible to still make them work for me, do you think?
Clicker training is absolutely the right tool for many trainers, and for many dogs, depending on the OBJECTIVES of the ... each year to the hard-headedness of these OTP trainers(One Trick Ponies) than are lost to speeding SUVs. One Trick Ponies.

No, not quite - it's a different philosophy. Think of that: suppose you're madly in love with a gorgeous woman and dying to have sex with her, these are your options: you can force her, you can pay her or you can make her fall in love with you; what would you choose?

You really should do something about this spitting problem of yours - your monitor must be a horrible mess.
Lucy
Possible? Yes - stranger things are possible. Likely? No. No way.

i agree!

Serves me right, for having snipped too much, though I'm sure you know exactly what I meant. Shelly, you're my logics litmus test: if you agree with me, I know that I must have said something utterly illogical.
Lucy
Instead of doing what everybody else does, he found a smarter and more humane way to achieve his goals - and, like many great

ideas, it was easy to implement and easy to verify

I'm sorry, I may have missed something. What goals has Jerry achieved? And you've verified them how?
Lynn K.
Shelly, you're my logics litmus test: if you agree with me, I know that I must have said something utterly illogical.

Oh, there's a much easier test that that: If you post something, I know you must have said something utterly illogical.
Instead of doing what everybody else does, he found a smarter and more humane way to achieve his goals - ... easy to implement and easy to verify I'm sorry, I may have missed something. What goals has Jerry achieved?

Train dogs, perhaps? But I guess you should ask HIM.
And you've verified them how?

I did that crazy thing that you all frown upon: praised my dogs for bad behavior; bad behavior stopped.
Lucy
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