re: Collars page 9

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The fascinating thing is not that the dogs can be trained in a variety of ways; humans can, too - ... you, or you can make them want to do what you ask them to do, because they enjoy doing it.

I've always done the latter, as have most here. I think that it's pretty cool that Howe has finally "discovered" non-scary "enjoyment training (tm)" - trademarked 'cause I think I can make tons'o'money with a new buzz phrase.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Instead of doing what everybody else does, he found a ... What goals has Jerry achieved? And you've verified them how?

i believe she said that she cured her dog's prey drive (don't let the fact that she doesn't even know what that term means worry you).

Shelly has some strange beliefs, which have nothing in common with the reality. Entertaining stuff, however.
what i want to know is, what does "everybody else" do?

Bupkis, no?
Lucy
I've always done the latter, as have most here. I think that it's pretty cool that Howe has finally "discovered" non-scary "enjoyment training (tm)" - trademarked 'cause I think I can make tons'o'money with a new buzz phrase.

i've done both the latter two, though really, i think they #3 is a subset of #2. there has to be some sort of pay-off, but sometimes that payoff is just enjoyment of the work.

shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com /
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com / (updated 4/3/05)
We were working on extended uses of tools and she pointed out the obvious about the click/treat being useless for chained sequences because it directs the dog back to the handler in the middle of the sequence.

Useless for chaining? Funny, I've managed to chain behaviors using the clicker.
But she also pointed out something so simply
obvious that rang a bell with me - in any behavior where the goal is handler attention, the clicker redirects attention to the treat rather than the handler. Bingo.

I know many people who would disagree with this statement. Rewards don't have to be food, and they always come from the handler. My dogs don't stare at my hand when they are done with a behavior, they look to ME to see if they got it right.
Sounds like this person either doesn't use the clicker correctly, or doesn't understand the concept.
Why, yes, he is the crazy one. Glad you finally noticed.

Of course I've noticed, right from the start: Jerry's the crazy one for having had a great idea,

What idea would that be, Lucy?
To make normal people detest you so much that they immediately toss you in their killfiles?
How exactly does that help dogs, even if Jerry actually had a "new" and "great idea" (which he doesn't, because probably 234,567,789,456.78 people have already had the same or better idea)?
years ahead of the rest of the professionals in his field.

Jerry isn't a professional. He's a SHYSTER.
Instead of doing what everybody else does, he found a smarter and more humane way to achieve his goals

There may be some truth to that.
He has probably managed to con a bunch of people out of their hard-earned money, which is Jerry's only goal.
- and, like many great ideas, it was easy to implement and easy to verify.

Are you really this naive and gullible? Or is it just an act?

Millions of people would be beating a path to Jerry's door and showering him with money if there was anything special about Jerry's "method," including good ol' Handsome Jack Morrison.

But Jerry has steadfastly refused to put up or shut up, as in putting his "method" up against the many other methods out there(and letting the dogs and results speak for themselves), because he knows he'd get laughed off the grounds.
The only people who believe any of his crap are naive, gullible dog NOVICES like yourself.
And it's a damn shame.
Even a child could train a dog by this method (as a matter of fact,

Children and adults have been "training" dogs from the first days that dogs/wolves decided to share a campfire (and maybe some food) with primitive man. It ain't rocket science, actually.

We're still using food to good effect, even today.

In fact, the vast majority of dogs do pretty damn good (no, they won't win any ribbons, etc. but they can become pretty doggone good house-pets and companions) with basically no formal training whatsoever.
I think that children do get along so well with dogs BECAUSE instinctively they train them according to Jerry's method: treat the dog with respect, earn the dog's trust, and the dog will do ANYTHING you ask).

Oh. My. God.
Again, do you really believe that ***?
Kids can be amongst the worst of tormentors of dogs on the planet; that's why they get bitten so often!
Especially when the kid's parents are as clueless as the kid, which is far too often the case.
Most importantly, every trainer worth his salt knows that treating a dog with respect (and consistency!) can help to earn a dog's trust.

That you attribute this virtue to Jerry Howe and Jerry Howe alone shows me any one of several things:
1. You don't get out much.
2. You're married to Jerry Howe
3. Jerry Howe pays you to say things like that.

Which is it?
I'd prefer to think that you're not this stupid, but I'm having a tough time with it.
This wasn't likely to endear him to the experts, who train the dogs the hard way, the way more painful to the trainer and much, much more so to the dog.

Professional trainers spend their entire careers looking for ways to make training easier, faster, more effective, more reliable, etc., and easier on the dog.
I know I have.
Again, "experts" around the world would be flocking to Jerry's Florida shanty (yes, I've actually seen it! it's a shanty.) to find out more about this wonderful "new" way of Jerry's. But there's nothing in his "manual" that can't be found elsewhere, and there's certainly nothing magical about it.
If Jerry really cared about dogs (he claims he doesn't!), he'd come out into the sunshine and walk the walk. For a change.

But he won't.
He prefers to talk the talk.
Talking the talk is a lot easier to do than actually TRAINING a dog, to even a moderately high level of performance.
Perhaps, if everybody could get a bit of his craziness, people would start to treat the animals they love in a kinder, better way;

If everybody could be just as crazy, wrong, detestable, mean-spirited, close-minded, hateful, pathologically incapable of telling the truth...wait? Am I describing Jerry here? Or the Taliban?

Jerry's lack of RPGs and IEDs aside, are there any other notable differences?
I think not.
This world is a much better place because there is only one Jerry Howe.
perhaps they'd even treat their children and their fellow humans in a kinder, better way.

If you truly cared about treating your fellow humans in a civil manner, you wouldn't come here and insult us all, and basically imply that we're all monsters, barbarians, etc.
So, actually, you're as big of a hypocrite as they come(and they come pretty big around here! see: Bixby), and I wouldn't trust any of my children or grandchildren with you anymore than I'd ever trust them with some whackadoo like Jerry Howe.
But the problem is that Jerry's kind of craziness is scarce

That's the best part!
He's pretty much alone in his craziness.
Thank God.
- what abounds, is the dull, uninspired and uninspiring stuff that is keeping the psychiatrists all over the world employed full time.

Here's a good example of what's keeping psychiatrists employed:

http://nymetro.com/nymetro/news/features/12026/index.html

E.g., males without gonads and too-busy "alpha" wives, who think it takes "a village" to raise a kid.
There's going to be enough need for therapy in that one family alone (provided Ryland doesn't climb a tower armed with a rifle one day) to keep an entire skyscraper full of psychiatrists busy.

Poor Ryland.
"Isabel wants Ryland to be happy, and he can’t be happy unless he's in control. Thus, when he wants a cookie, she gives it to him. Thus, when in the car he wants his shoes off three blocks from the destination, she takes them off. Thus, she's over there in her office."

Poor poor Ryland.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
In fact, the vast majority of dogs do pretty damn good (no, they won't win any ribbons, etc. but they can become pretty doggone good house-pets and companions) with basically no formal training whatsoever.

Amen.
flick 100785
Train dogs, perhaps? But I guess you should ask HIM
But I have. Since 1999. There were just a couple of teensy little problems with his responses. Oh well, he's no longer claiming to have trained police K9 handlers. A few pointed inquiries backed him off that one. The man's a verifiable fraud.
Train dogs, perhaps? But I guess you should ask HIM
But I have. Since 1999. There were just a couple of teensy little problems with his responses. Oh well, he's no longer claiming to have trained police K9 handlers. A few pointed inquiries backed him off that one. The man's a verifiable fraud.
Nope - the problem with the chained behavior quote was mine - I should have stated it more clearly as to using a clicker in the middle of a chained sequence.
You misunderstand handler attention as a goal - it isn't checking in but rather maintaining eye contact on command. So if you were working on eye contact throughout a recall and c/t when the dog made eye contact,
the c/t would immediately interrupt that contact. Again it's the limitation of
the c/t being at the termination of a behavior, while so much training is done
during a behavior, without stopping it. I assure you Lori Drouin understands
clicker training thoroughly - she's had more OTCh dogs with it than I could ever
dream of. It's my inability to translate her thoughts that is the problem.
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