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De-lurking here for a bit.
I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but I believe in the freedom of speech, so I'm gonna say it any way..

Honestly, I doubt it in here. For crating, most people in here are pretty good. If you want to endure some abuse, go to a cats ng and mention that you are in favor of declawing.
I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve a purpose?

It can serve a lot of purposes. It all depends on the purpose that you want it to serve.
I've had dogs for as long as I can remember and maybe I have been lucky but my pups have ... found toilet-training/chewing no real problem as long as you put the time and patience into teaching it where to go.

House-training a puppy with a crate makes things , at least to me, much easier. Granted, I have only had one dog, but once we got into house- training, it went very quickly.
Yes I've had the few accidents but it's probably no worse than your average 2/3 year old child drawing all over your walls with crayon, and you certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

As Julia mentioned, we do crate kids. It is just called something different. Putting them in a play-pen, jolly jumper is really the same thing. You put them somewhere where you know they cannot get into any trouble while you are doing something else that occupies a lot of your time.
Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it chewing, I understand that but ... chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup than being locked in a box?[/nq]Moogli is a little over a year old. He likes toys, but isn't really obsessed with them. When chewing, he will do it to whatever is handy. however, he is especially fond of something that he can rip into strings or threads. Towels, cushions he can de-stuff, gloves, plants. He also seems to have a like for plaster, wood, and pressed wood. Crating is a way, for us, to ensure that he doesn't chew through any load-bearing walls or hurt himself while we are at work.

In addition, as shelly mentioned, there are a number of other reasons (SA, agression) that are helpful. Another one that I don't think has been mentioned yet is the following. If you leave some dogs access to the whole house, they will bark at sounds outside. Mailman, meter reader, people walking by, etc. They are protecting their territory, and when they bark and the people go away, they have done their job. Some dogs get very stressd out with a large area to protect and may not react well.

IIRC, some people in here (rpdb) have known dogs who have jumped through a window to get at something (or someone) outside.
Also, what is the difference between putting them in a crate, or putting them in a room with a closed door? To our mind, there is a big difference. To a dogs mind, I don't know if we can say that. Remember, dogs descended from the same ancestors as wolves. These ancestors were probably denning creatures. A small area like a crate gives them a place all their own for their sense of security. I know dogs that go their, own their own, to sleep, relax, or to feel safe (like when the eevil vacuum cleaner is out).
And if you have to work all day and leave the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

In an ideal world, that would be nice. Unfortunately, this is not an ideal world. I would love to be able to spend all day at home with my dopg, unfortunately, I have to work. It is probably safe to say that a large number of house-holds are like this.
Just my views

And these are mine. Thanks for sharing.

**
Marcel Beaudoin & Moogli
**
'If people could put rainbows in zoos,
they'd do it.' Hobbes
**
I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but I believe in the freedom of speech, so I'm gonna say it any way..

Near as I can tell, most people are reasonable about having discussions most of the time.
I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve a purpose?[/nq]Depends on what it is you're trying to achieve. When we first brought in our dog, we knew nothing about him, beyond that he was big, and marked everything. Without having any history on him, he could not have full run of the house when we couldn't supervise directly, and there is really no good way to block off any of our rooms with easy to clean floors (open floor plan). So, we went with a crate. He was fine in it, and even after we discovered that he had impeccable manners in the house, he continued to use it when he needed to feel secure.

The door to the crate was open all the time, and if he ever felt overwhelmed (very easy early on), he'd go in there with no coaxing from anyone. Over time, he stopped using the crate, and now goes upstairs to our bedroom if he needs to get away from it all. I do like the fact that he considers the crate to be a safe place. If I ever have to leave him at the vet or the groomer, he won't freak out. If he needs to recuperate from medical problems (heartworm treatment, surgery, etc.), he won't be even more stressed out by being confined.
Even as we type, my brother is failing miserably at housebreaking his 10 week old Boston Terrier puppy. He is refusing to use the crate in helping with the housetraining (that's pretty much the only way the puppy can be in his room and safe - too much electronics), and wakes up practically every morning to find a pile right in front of his door. There is a fair chance that this pup will become my responsibility at some point, and if it happens, I'd have no qualms about crate training her.
Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it chewing, I understand that but ... chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup than being locked in a box?

The pup can have entertainment while it is in the crate. Lots of pups choose to eat other, more interesting (to them) stuff while unsupervised. I have a friend whose almost 2 year old dog practically destroyed her entire house while she was a puppy because said friend did not believe in "limiting the dog's freedom". Even with a plentiful supply of recreational bones and toys, what she chose to chew on were the furniture and electrical cords. She most definitely needs a new couch, and has a bunch of electronics that don't work because the powercord has been chewed off. About the only good thing about all of this is that the cords were never plugged in, and she didn't ingest any of the stuff she chewed up.
And if you have to work all day and leave the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

I don't know how many people would qualify for dogs if that were a condition. Currently, I work from home, and am around pretty much 24 x
7. There is very little difference in the way I interact with my dog -when I'm working, he's sleeping (or insists on sitting outside all by himself if it is cold enough). When I'm not, he's with me and we're doing stuff. My physical presence during work hours means nothing. I would say that people who work full time should seriously consider the ramifications of getting a puppy, but to an adult dog, it may not make any difference.
Suja
I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but Ibelieve in the freedom of speech, so ... leave the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place? Just my views

I don't think that, unless you actually try crate training, that you can really have an objective opinion of it, and not just an emotional response to the idea of "a dog locked in a box."Of my current three dogs, one was crate trained as a puppy, and the other two were not. Guess which was the easiest puppy to raise? The crate trained one, by far, and not because he spent the majority of his time in a box - in fact, he spent very little time overall in the crate. However, using a combination of the crate and an ex-pen, he learned much more than just how to sleep in a box; he was housebroken, learned how to "hang out" quietly when things were going on, learned how his own behavior controlled what happened to him (whining wouldn't get him out, but quiet would) etc.

This was important because he was going to be going to a lot of agility events, but even if he was "only" a pet, these were very important things for him to learn, and it was much easier to teach those things to him with a crate. In addition, I had a safe place for my puppy to be happy and quiet when I could not supervise him, when he was in the car, when we were at agility events. I definitely dont see a problem with that!
As for the idea that people who have to work all day "shouldn't have a dog" well, that seems to be a common misconception among posters from the UK. I guess there is a luxury of lifestyle in the UK that the US has not yet achieved, because frankly, most people have to work. If no one who worked all day was able to have a dog, there would be a much worse problem with homeless dogs than there is now! While I think that someone getting a young puppy needs to have a method to make sure that puppy is attended to during the day until it is old enough to hold its bladder/bowels, I don't agree that a puppy should only be available to those with the ability to attend to it all day.
Christy
My reasons for crate training:
Keep a new adult dog segregated when I'm not home, for an initial period, while still allowing other pet interaction (i.e. - better than shutting behind a solid door IMO, and keeps everyone safe).
Safety and cleanliness in the car (like a canine car seat). My dogs are often wet and muddy and I also like to keep them from becoming projectiles in case of a short stop or accident. I am an avid seat-belt wearer myself.

Acceptance of confinement. Handy if a dog has to be kept confined due to illness or injury. Dogs who freak out at such can do a lot of damage to themselves.
Dog events. My dogs need to be somewhere safe and confined at dog events while I am doing other things.
Puppies - like babies (yes, crating children is common - it's called a CRIB), often need help to settle down and get to the business of sleeping alone. Keeps everyone safe, given little choice if roused but to go back to sleep, and encourages good sleep patterns.
I don't crate in my home past initial training, and don't crate when I am home and awake. I use crates on a regular basis in vehicles and training buildings and events.
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve a purpose? I've had dogs for ... my pups have always been allowed the freedom to roam - albeit a couple of rooms at a time

Which is the essence of crate training - expanding the dog's territory slowly. Your dogs did well with your method, and that's great.
but I found toilet-training/chewing no real problem as long as you put the time and patience into teaching it ... drawing all over your walls with crayon, and you certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

I've had no problems with peeing in my house - I used a crate with one of my dogs (while I was gone, never while I was at home) because his unquenchable hunger was potentially dangerous.

Crating is not always a convenience for the owner. Dog safety must also be considered.
Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it chewing, I understand that but ... have to work all day and leave the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

"Locked in a box" is pure rhetoric. Some might call it trolling.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Locked in a box" is pure rhetoric. Some might call it trolling. Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

It is anthromorphizing at it's best IMO.
I find it odd the word "box" was used
as that is what crates are commonly
called in Germany, Belgium etc.
Gwen
but I found toilet-training/chewing no real problem as long as you put the time and patience into teaching it where to go.

Crating is not always a convenience for the owner. Dog safety must also be considered.

Absolutely. Sam had a youthful infatuation with the plugs on electrical appliances. A friend's Dachshunds ate her kitchen cabinets.
Some people crate their pups if they have to work ... nicer for the pup than being locked in a box?

You're quibbling about the size of the containment area? A crate is a box. A room is a box. An outdoor run is a box. A fenced yard is a box. Keep a pup stimulated with toys/chews and in a safe environment, and you've just described crating.
And if you have to work all day and leave the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

Whyever not?

Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo: Regis, Sam-I-Am, Noah (1992-2001), Ranger, Duke,
felines, and finches
and you certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

What, never heard of a play pen?
Terri & Harlan
What, never heard of a play pen? Terri & Harlan

Or a teenager that couldn't wait to get to his/her bedroom and close the door for hours on end?
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