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I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but Ibelieve in the freedom of speech, so ... child drawing all over your walls with crayon, andyou certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

What about a playpen? Do they still use those for babies?
Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it chewing, I understand that but ... the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place? Just my views Tracie

Seems to me there are uses and misuses of crates.
What, never heard of a play pen? Terri & Harlan

Or a teenager that couldn't wait to get to his/her bedroom and close the door for hours on end?

The above fits what my daughter did. She lived in that room. And only came out for meals.
Gwen
Just my 2 cents...lol...I have a pit cross, and he has been crate trained since 3 months...I have cats and a 2 yr old son...this is for dogs safety as well as the rest of my clan...Buddy is crated while I am at work(to protect the cats-because as good as he seems with them in my presence, you never REALLY know)...and sometimes when the 2 year old gets too rambunctious, I will actually have to 'let' Buddy into his crate(door has swung shut and he's standing outside of it looking with his sideways cocked head-he 'wants' in)and the child is corrected, as well...crating is not cruel in my eyes, or Buddy's apparently...Until next time, Becky...
While I'm happy for you that you've enjoyed average success without one, I crate trained my last two dogs and I would definitely crate train any future dogs. While you may think a few accidents are acceptable, I do not. I want housebreaking to be fast and clear to my dogs. My current dog required the crate for less than a month or two and had about 5 accidents.

How do you prevent accidents from happening when you're at the grocery store, in the shower, cooking dinner? If you are not using a crate you still need to confine the pup if you do not want to discover carpet mines all over your house. If you are not using a crate you probably are using a space large enough where the pup may poop/pee in one corner and play in it yuck, not my idea of housebreaking. Using a crate also causes the dog to learn how to hold it. If s/he cannot get outside and won't go where they sleep they learn to hold it.
Furthermore, crates are used by other people (vets, groomers, airlines) and if the dog is not crate trained s/he may panic when forced into one by professionals who need to use them. I would prefer my dog to go in on command and lie calmly waiting to be let out; not pacing and chewing on the bars totally freaked out and a mental mess when she gets home.

Lastly, if you compete in any dog sport (obedience agility, etc) a crate is necessary for the dog's down time. When spending lots of time alone at the training club I belong to, Kali often wanders into an open crate for nap.

It's only a prison if you make it one.

Kristen and
Kali CDX, CGC, TDIA, TT
www.kristenandkali.com
i've also had dogs all my life. i never used or owned a crate until a few years ago. the ... dogs would lock them in a box. then i had an epiphany in the form of a 7mo Boxer ***.

Heh. I had *** what you just described in the same dog. Madigan was the perfect puppy, and left with the run of the house for 4 hours at a time (I would come home at lunch) until she was 6 months old. Then I came home to thousands of dollars worth of damage one day, and she continued to be destructive until she was 2 years old. The crate was necessary.

It also helps immensely with housebreaking. She was housebroken in 3 days, so I didn't need it for her. But if you allow the puppy to have accidents in the house, it will take a lot longer for her to learn that outside is the only place to go. Dogs develop habits very easily. Breaking them is another story.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
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I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve a purpose?

Please remember that there are many circumstances where a crate is necessary, far beyond puppy safety/housetraining. Post-surgical restraint, safe transport, SA, etc. There are also behavior modification cases where allowing a dog to roam defeats everything you are trying to do. For example, I had a 2 yr old ACD client today who is not only not housetrained, he has learned to hide pee and poop from humans, no doubt from harsh treatment by the original owners. Constant supervision is the only way the new owner is going to be able to get the opportunity to get him out to the proper place and praise him for using it, so sleeping in a crate really is necessary in his case.
Lynn K.
Therefore, crating does work. Thank you Nevyn ED!

heh. Nevyn seems to've had the same grammar teacher Silly Door Knob had.

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and doesserve a purpose?

Depending on circumstances, absolutely. If used correctly, a crate helps teach a dog to have an "off switch", helps prevent fatal accidents when the puppy is in the chewing phase, and aids in housebreaking. Also, if you have performance or show dogs, acclimation to a crate is essential.
I've had dogs for as long as I can remember and maybe I have
been lucky but my pups have always been allowed the freedom to roam -albeit a couple of rooms at a time

IOW, your dogs didn't really have "freedom to roam". :-) You confined them to a smaller area in the house, most likely one that you'd also puppy-proofed. Not everybody can do that- I couldn't, because there are no doors in the downstairs of my house, and the only easily closed off space also contains the front door.
and you certainly wouldn't crate a child

Sure you would- or have you never heard of cribs and playpens? Used correctly, that's exactly how a crate functions - as a safe place for the dog to relax/sleep when the owner can't directly supervise.
surely it's nicer for the pup than being locked in a box?

Neither I nor my dogs percieve the use of crates as being "locked in a box". Their crates are their secure homes away from home- again, a properly used crate functions as an enclosed dog bed.
I don't crate in my home past initial training, and don't crate when I amhome and awake. I use crates on a regular basis in vehicles and trainingbuildings and events.[/nq]Almost the same here- as I've posted in the past, Brenin (gotten at 8-9 months, completely untrained and literally berserk) was crated until he learned to settle in the house, Morag (gotten at 11 months) until she stopped compulsively eating non-food objects. They went into the crates when I left for work, I came home at lunch and and took them out for a short walk or to play in the back yard, the crate was phased out as they matured. In Bren's case, the crating was necessary for the safety of my elderly mother- she has osteoporosis, and we couldn't take any chances on him bumping into her and knocking her down.

In Morag's case, it was necessary for HER safety- due to stress and hormonal issues (she'd just been spayed in an advanced state of pregnancy), she would chew up and eat all sorts of odd things, and the chances were too high that she'd kill herself doing it.
Rocsi was actually almost never crated at home as a puppy- she was lucky enough to come along at a time when I could take her to work with me, though she usually slept in a crate there. And from the very beginning she was crated during the other dogs' agility classes, and at agility trials. As adults, the older two are only crated at agility and sometimes at work; Rocsi is crated if I have to go out and leave the dogs home (which is rare), and sometimes when the dogs are fed; she feels more comfortable eating in the crate, and can let herself out when she's done.

She's crated while I'm gone for safety reasons- my elderly mother is very slow going in and out the front door, and there are squirrels in the front yard, which is unfenced and right next to a street. And I prefer to err on the side of caution as regards the cats, as well.

Sarah
Brenin, CGC, AD, O-EAC-V, O-EJC-V, EGC
Gwydion, Handy Cat
Morag Thistledown, Novice and Open Triple Superiors, EAC, O-EJC Robyn Meezer, Inspector of Human Activity
Rocsi Cadarn, S-NJC, O-NAC, O-NGC, O-OAC NGTG, OGTG

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