I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but I believe in the freedom of speech, so I'm gonna say it any way..

I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve a purpose? I've had dogs for as long as I can remember and maybe I have been lucky but my pups have always been allowed the freedom to roam - albeit a couple of rooms at a time but I found toilet-training/chewing no real problem as long as you put the time and patience into teaching it where to go. Yes I've had the few accidents but it's probably no worse than your average 2/3 year old child drawing all over your walls with crayon, and you certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it chewing, I understand that but if the pup is kept stimulated with toys, good chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup than being locked in a box? And if you have to work all day and leave the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

Just my views
Tracie
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I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and doesserve a purpose?

Yes, it does. Your dog is acclimated to being left in a cage. Thus, trips to the vet for surgery are less stressful. Being boarded is less stressful. Being shipped (i.e. you move across the country) is less stressful. Being shown is less stressful.
Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it chewing, I understand that but ... chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup than being locked in a box?

I suppose, if you don't mind the risk of your pup electrocuting itself, choking to death on your carpet, or getting a blockage from eating something you didn't think would fit down it's throat.
And if you have to work all day and leave the
pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?[/nq]I work 8 hour shifts, which leaves me gone 10 hours a day (45 minute trip there & back). Do I feel guilty for leaving my 4 month old alone in his crate for that length of time? No. He can hold it. He's shown us he can. I'll cut a few hours out of my sleep to make sure he's played with just as much as if I'd been home all day. He gets lots of playtime, and it's no different from leaving him crated at night.

If I have to leave him alone that long for more than one day in a row, I take him to the park and let him run around for a hour or two, or I take him to his breeder's while I'm at work (where he stays in a run with her 3 month old puppy they wear eachother out completely.)
Are there better options? Yes. Is this the right home for him? Yes, I think so. He's everything I've been waiting for. He gets lots of mental stimulation and is pretty much a very well-behaved puppy (and even dislikes the BF's ex! What more could I ask for?), and I don't feel it's wrong to ask him to sleep in a crate instead of on the floor, bed, or spend the day harassing the cat.
~Emily
I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and does serve a purpose? I've had dogs for as long as I can remember and maybe I have been lucky but my pups have always been allowed the freedom to roam

i've also had dogs all my life. i never used or owned a crate until a few years ago. the last puppy i had was, honestly, the perfect dog. he had free roam of the house. he was never crated and, even when he was a 10 week old baby, he never chewed on things that weren't his and never, ever had accidents. i thought crating was cruel and couldn't understand why people who professed to love their dogs would lock them in a box. then i had an epiphany in the form of a 7mo Boxer ***.
you certainly wouldn't crate a child (well, I dunno with some people).

not that dogs are children, but i certainly would restrain a child if i couldn't directly supervise it. there's no way in hell i'd let a small child have free run of the house with no supervision!
Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it chewing, I understand that but ... chews and prized furniture out of reach then surely it's nicer for the pup than being locked in a box?

define "nicer," please. if a puppy is left with free reign of the home, what happens when it gets bored with its chew toys? it may well start chewing on things that are dangerous, or it may get into something deadly. that doesn't sound very "nice" to me.
And if you have to work all day and leave the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place?

no, maybe you shouldn't. for someone in that position i would recommend getting an older pup or a grown dog. that doesn't always work out the way you plan, though.
and, what about dogs who have separation anxiety? what about dog-aggressive dogs in multiple dog households? when i added a second dog to my home, i purposely looked for an older pup, hoping to forgo some of the usual puppy problems
(housebreaking, chewing, etc.). i ended up with a 7mo Boxer who, come to find out, was not housebroken, had substantial separation anxiety, and, when she matured, developed some worrisome dog-aggressive tendencies. for her safety and the safety of my older dog, she was crated until i was able to work with her SA and aggression to the point where she could be safely left uncrated. in her case, a crate may well have saved her life. i don't talk to too many people who are dying to take on an adolescent Boxer with SA and dog-aggression.

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
There's crating and then there's crating. I'm convinced that most of the argument about crating is an argument about what is meant by it. Are we talking about putting the pup in a safe place where he can sleep for a few hours when unattended? Or are we talking about leaving a dog bored and miserable for hours on end while being ignored?

I've never crated my dogs. For my first puppy, Genny, I didn't crate her because I didn't know what I was doing. I'd gotten a crate based on the advice of a friend, didn't understand how to use for housetraining, tried it twice when I was leaving the house, realized my pup was miserable, didn't know what to do next and discontinued the experiment. You can't really call that crating since I was doing everything wrong. My next 2 dogs came to me housetrained as adults. I have a crate for Cubbe, but mostly we use it in the car. She doesn't care for it at home (preferring a much smaller space under the bed), and I can't see what advantage it would be so I don't press the point.
There are other ways to train without crating. Crating is a good way to train if it suits you and your dog.
As for the dog/toddler comparison, no you wouldn't crate your child for drawing on the walls. You'd keep crayons away from the kid when not supervised. You might put your toddler in a playpen or crib if you needed to use the bathroom or get 5 minutes to yourself and were worried about what an active toddler can get into in that time. You might also put your toddler in a playpen where he can see you cooking if you were worried about spilling boiling water if the child chooses the wrong moment to pull on your leg. Think of crating a puppy in those terms a good place to keep a dog safe and happy for a short while.

I'm not sure having the run of the house really is better than a crate for some dogs. A whole house is a huge responsibility for a protective, territorial dog. Your dog might feel happier and more secure in a smaller space. My dog does have the run of the house when I'm gone, but my dog has never been a destructive neurotic chewer or barker either. All evidence points to her sleeping on the couch while we're gone. If we did have a problem, we'd consider crating.
Lia
Some people crate their pups if they have to work and they don't want it chewing, I understand that but ... the pup then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog in the first place? Just my views Tracie

Well Tracie some of what you said has some value to it, ie the housebreaking part. But puppies need a "time out" place as well. Not to mention if a dog ever has to have a serious surgery, ie ACL tear in which crating is manditory it is best the said dog is used to being crated and even enjoys it and sees it as a safe haven. People do not lock their dogs up in these for long extended periods of time very often. I think it is anthromorphizing to see it as a cage, ie like jail. This is not at all how a dog sees their crates when, key word here
used PROPERLY.
Gwen
I'm probably going to get a barrage of abuse or flame grilled but Ibelieve in the freedom of speech, so I'm gonna say it any way.. I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and doesserve a purpose?

It depends on what ou are doing and why you are doing it ~ I didn't nbelieve in it at all and was horrified by some of the stories I had read, til gradually I realised that I was only reading the stuff that horrified me and not looiking at how the 'sensible' people do it ~ KrisHur's article on the aad website finally convinced me that it might not be such a bad thing.

Cindy sleeps in her cage. If I go out, she's free in the dining room, but she has her toys in her cage and she likes to play and sleep there. That's easy. the only time I ever shut the door is at night or if we are doing something where she could get in the way and get hurt.. at least that way, if ever there were a big reason to have to go in a cage ~ such as a vet stay, she won't be petrified of it and wonder what's going on.

I didn't use it for house training during the day, but I am sure it helped at night, and I only shut it at night now so that she gets used to the door being closed. I am trying to get her more cosy with it with the door shut during the day but its not an urgent thing, so I am happy to take our time and go at the easiest possible pace for her.
Cindy is teething and does chew ~ she's a gun dog and from all accounts it seems that gundogs are big chewers. She's had a good bit of plaster off the walls so if I couldn't make her safe in one room where a little plaster isn't a big thing, I'd be chained to her and not be able to leave her at all ~ dogs need to learn to cope on their own so that they don't develop separation anxiety ( house destruction is a very common reason for people wanting to get rid of their dogs) , and using a house cage, gently and sensibly along with baby gates, can go a long way towards that.

Diana
I've never crated a dog. I always thought crates were cruel, but I've heard various stories about them, so I suppose people have their reasons. Anyway, My dogs when young, have always had an area of their own to stay in while I was out of the house, so I suppose in a way, they were 'crated'. Once they were fully out of puppyhood, they were allowed the run of the house, but they would still go into their 'area' when I was gone, even though they weren't confined to it. (By confining I mean that I would put a gate in front of an open door to the room they were in).
Hope this makes sense. It's pretty early in the morning and I just got up. LOL!
I've often wondered if crating a pup/dog is really a benefit and doesserve a purpose?

I never used to crate dogs either. Managed to housebreak them and they learned to be left in the house alone and behave. It does take attention and ideally someone around most of the time while they're being trained. Not everyone can do that.
The two dogs I have now are crate trained - came that way from the breeder. They're now two years old and the crates are not used on anything approaching a daily basis. When we leave, the dogs are left loose in the house.
However, the benefits to us of their early training continue. It means that when the dog goes to the vet - where he will be crated - that part of the experience isn't a new one to him. Our female was just spayed and although she normally sleeps in bed with us, we used the crate the first night she was home. She was still drugged and it was a safer place for her.

We travel and the crates go with us. The dogs are not left alone in a motel room but when we get to a friend's house to visit and want to go out to dinner, everyone is more comfortable if we leave the dogs in crates - at least until they adjust to the new household.
We also go to agility trials. There are times that it is necessary for us to leave our dogs at the site - to walk the course or to make a bathroom trip - and it is good to have a safe place to put them for short periods of time. There isn't always someone you know and trust to hold them on the leash. And it gives the dogs a quiet place to nap in what can be a hectic environment.
I'm sure there are other benefits that either I haven't discovered or that just don't fit in our lives.
~~Judy
I never used to crate dogs either. Managed to housebreak them and they learned to be left in the house ... I'm sure there are other benefits that either I haven't discovered or that just don't fit in our lives. ~~Judy

Excellent post and all of the above reasons is why I see crates as wonderful things. I never have me dogs loose in vehicle, they always in a crate. I could use seatbelt but personally my dogs seem to prefer the comfort of their crates. Going to any dog event requires a dog be crate trained and happy.

Gwen
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