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Hey, you won't get any arguments from me on whether a dog in a secured crate is just overall better ... x 32" x 35" (Giant) and 40" x 27" x 30" (Extra Large). There's a math problem lurking there somewhere.

Trust me, I do understand. Which is why I know own a van. A dented one at the moment with the deer-whack mark, but hey, at least I didn't end up with Cala in my lap!
A crate can become a projectile too

I have mine bungee corded in place. With the arrangement I have I've never had them move.
Reason two I probably should be crating. Although I have qualms about putting a wire crate in the car, getting ... Does anyone use wire crates in cars, or are all the people on this thread using plastic crates for travel?

I have one of each. I actually prefer the sturdy wire crates because I feel the air flow is better in warm weather. However, Trip destoyed a not so well made one once and is in a varikennel type now. I think the trick to using wire crates is to make sure they are super sturdy and don't have drop pins.

Beth
Yup. I tried doggies seat belts but Oso didn't like them. The crates work great at keeping my dogs safe ... the dashboard (he was lying quietly on the backseat) when I came to a sudden stop at only 25 mph.

My dogs do not like the belts either. That is one reason why I do not use them all of the time. One of them prefers to lay down the whole time and the belt restricts her from spreading out the way she likes. The other dog just likes to skip from one window to the next to watch everything. I know there are risks because I have a friend whose dogs ran off after a serious accident. They were scared but not crated or belted. Luckily she got them back.
B
My seats are always folded down and I have a rubber mat covering the cargo area.

Where'd you find a rubber mat so big?

I exaggerated. I'm prone to that.
It covers the area that is cargo if the back seats are in their upright position. It doesn't cover the whole cargo area that is the folded back seats + the regular cargo area. It covers half the full-time cargo area. The other, carpeted half is upright and not in good view if there are people riding in the back seat (it's behind their heads), so I don't worry about it. I never clean my car, which I can afford to do because there's leather *everywhere.* I'm about to have it detailed to prep for sale. I expect the carpet on that half will be the worst to clean, but again, it's upright when prospective buyers are looking, so it won't be that bad.
Sure, my car smells like dog, but it's the dog car!

That's how I see it. We have one "good" car for driving people in, and one dogmobile.

We have one dog car and one car too small to fit 4 adults taller than 5'. A few times it's gotten me out of driving on a night when I wanted to be less than sober and I didn't even plan it. Friends and family think our people car is too small to fit comfortably. Fine by me! I get a designated driver.
Soon we'll have two cars that look really small although the second will actually fit 4 adults comfortably. But I won't go out of the way to point that out. Mwahahaha.
Cate
@mb-m07.aol.com:
I think the trick to using wire crates is to make sure they are super sturdy and don't have drop pins.

Aha. This is why I think wire crates aren't sturdy: Orson's home crate has drop pins. It never occurred to me that there are any sturider wire crates than his. I purposely didn't buy a folding one because I thought it wasn't sturdy. Now I find the one I thought was heavy duty isn't. Hmph.

Cate
I would like to point out just because I don't crate these two does not in any way mean that I am an unfit person to own any animal. And it doesn't mean anyone else is either.
Some dogs are more prone to destructive behavior than others and if the owner chooses to crate them fine that is there choice. I simply stated I don't find it appropriate to confine a dog to a crate for 8 hours or more a day. You should be able to train a dog and be able to trust it. A crate has a place in training and if the dog feels safe there that is OK. It does nothing for my two but stress each of them out the point that both are frantic. I choose not to crate them because my dogs are not destructive and can be trusted to be alone 'They have both proven this to me"
As for having no business owning dogs I have just as much right as you do. In fact all my animals are better taken care of than most that I see. I have two dogs & three cats all of which receive excellent medical care. Barney has mast cell cancer, ACL repairs on both back legs and arthritis all of which are treated ongoing on a daily basis. The other dog has allergies and she gets medication daily.

I have a cat who has a heart murmur. He is in air conditioning all summer long just to make him more comfortable. Not many people would go as far as to run the air when they aren't home just for a cat. I have another cat who has had a giant cell tumor which ended up with a leg amputation at the age of 3 caused from a rabies vaccine. So far the other cat has no medical problems.These 5 are very well taken care of and I make sure that when an emergency arises that I have the funds available to do what needs done. I keep a constant credit line open of 1000.00 or more just for such emergencies and on occasion I have had to use it but I've done it without hesitation. In addition I budget $50.00 a month just for routine vet visits. Each and every one of them are taken into the vet at the first sign of any problems.

Nothing is left get out of hand. Barney goes in for another biopsy on Thursday due to finding a lump on his leg. Hopefully this is just a cyst and not another mass cell tumor but I'm not the kind to lets just wait and see what happens. He is alive because I have this attitude if I didn't the 2nd tumor he had would have clearly killed him.
As for how my vet feels on the subject, I constantly hear from her and her assistant who happens to help run the local humane society that they wished more people were as attentive to their animals. That they wished they saw more animals before the problems got out of hand. And no she doesn't say this just to get the money. Lord knows this woman doesn't charge anywhere near what some of the vets do around here.
As for what you think on the subject you are allowed your opinion the same as I am mine. As for what I think of your opinion I could care less. I know I do the best I can for them and it's a hell of a lot better than most pets ever receive in a life time.
Celeste
Some dogs are more prone to destructive behavior than others and if the owner chooses to crate them fine that ... to trust it. A crate has a place in training and if the dog feels safe there that is OK.

My older dog is not trustworthy outside a crate when I'm gone. She had a pretty bad life before I got her, and though most of the issues have gone away, she doesn't like rattling around in the house when I'm not there. If I leave her uncrated I come home to a frantic dog who has eaten something. If I crate her, I come home to a sleeping, happy dog. It's as if she feels responsible for the entire property while I'm away if uncrated, and if crated she knows she can just relax and not worry. Plus she's become pica as she's gotten older and will eat fabric.

My younger dog? Well maybe someday, but for now, no way, no how. She's over 2, but still way, way from trustworthy enough to leave loose in the house!
Sounds like you need to chill. Life is way to short to get like that for little of nothing. Maybe you need a drinkie or two or three?

Reading comprehension, Gwen. I'll see you in a few days because I can see where this is going.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Does anyone use wire crates in cars, or are all the people on this thread using plastic crates for travel?

Considering that I'm somewhat responsible for this sub-thread: Yes, I use a wire crate in my Dog Van. It's an XL (42 x something) that fits Rocky and Friday) with tie-downs to where the seats used to go. Both dogs are in the same crate; I've gotta take a picture.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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