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Now I'm sure that in a smaller space 4' x 4' sheets would look weird but I suppose the plywood could be cut into smaller sections. Anyway from seeing that floor, I think one could be house-proud and have plywood floors.

now that sounds purty. i'd happily live with small plywood "tiles." thanks for the idea!

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
Bummer , the weather's the same over here , except for the tornadoes!

we had a doozy of a storm last weekend (tornadoes, hail, huge trees and buildings knocked down). it scared the living hell out of me. i've been through tornadoes, but this was even scarier. i think it was becaues the electricity went out (for two days!), so i couldn't even check the weather. (i'll be getting a weather scanner after that experience.)

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
I dont know anyone who would give "run of house when alone". Plenty are able to be confined to a kitchen, blocked from certain rooms, etc though.

I know plenty of people who give new puppies "run of the house." But yes, the crate isn't the operative factor - confinement is. Many pups are fine confined to a kitchen or such.
However, I would recommend the crate for new puppy owners first. Less chance of finding spots in the confinement room to pee (which makes housebreaking more difficult), less risk of destruction, and it's a good thing to get the pup acclimated to the crate as young as possible.
If somebody tells me they set up an area in their house to confine their pup, though, I don't tell them it's wrong and they need a crate. I only object about having a new puppy in a different room from the family overnight.

Even then, there are exceptions. There are always exceptions. I've talked to people who put their new puppies in the laundry room overnight, and they slept fine with no crying from day one.
My Golden, although I did crate him initially overnight and when I was at work, was a puppy who I ... free overnight at 4 months (as all puppies are, although still contained in the bedroom). even Franklin wasn't a chewer!

I've had pups I've raised without a crate, and even some without confinement at all (when I was young and stupid :}.
It took one Madigan for me to become a crate fan. :} Sure, many puppies can be house trained just fine without a crate. But as I posted above, why not start out with the most efficient and safest method?
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
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I also don't subscribe to the theory that it prevents bad habits from forming. It prolongs them for as long ... in some bad habits. Therefore the owner only prolonged the inevitable, or "managed" the dog & situation in the meantime.

A dog doesn't graduate from the crate when alone until he has proven himself trustworthy in the house. The dog becomes trustworthy in the house by (1) prevention of developing bad habits, and (2) training by the owner.

I never said, implied, or even thought that the crate did the training all by itself. :}
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
I also don't subscribe to the theory that it prevents ... inevitable, or "managed" the dog & situation in the meantime.

A dog doesn't graduate from the crate when alone until he has proven himself trustworthy in the house. The dog ... by the owner. I never said, implied, or even thought that the crate did the training all by itself. :}

You have said and implied that the crate has a hand in the training and I maintain that it doesn't. The crate, wrt to housetraining & destructive habits, has absolutely no training base at all. Its a management tool and that's all it'll ever be. There is no training going on either from the crate, from the owner (who is likely absent) or in any other manner.
Keeping a dog from being able to commit mischief isn't training, its keeping the dog from being able to creating mischief. The dog doesn't know it can't do something or that something is unwanted if its not first allowed to attempt the mischief and be corrected for it.

Tara
You have said and implied that the crate has a hand in the training and I maintain that it doesn't.

Without a crate (or proper confinement), a new dog is very likely to engage in inappropriate behavior when alone. With a crate (or proper confinement), the dog is not likely to engage in inappropriate behavior when alone, because he isn't given the chance.
If the dog engages in inappropriate behavior, and there is nobody around to correct him, then that inappropriate behavior can very easily become a habit that will have to be broken.
If the dog does not engage in inappropriate behavior except for when there is somebody to interrupt it and offer an alternate appropriate behavior, he will not develop the habit of engaging in that behavior.

Without the crate (or proper confinement), training is harder because there is a great likelihood of having to break preventable bad habits that developed while the dog wasn't supervised.
So in that way, the crate may not be a Training Tool in the most literal sense of the term, but it does assist greatly with the training process.

The crate, wrt to housetraining &
destructive habits, has absolutely no training base at all.

The crate does not train the dog to do* anything (which I said now about 4 times). Not only that, but the crate does not *train* the dog to do anything (maybe a different emphasis will help). And on the other hand, a *crate will not train the dog to do anything.
However, a crate (or proper confinement) does assist greatly with the training process.
Its a
management tool and that's all it'll ever be. There is no training going on either from the crate, from the owner (who is likely absent) or in any other manner.

Right, a crate (or proper confinement) does not train a dog to do anything. But it is an integral part of the training process if one wants to be efficient and prevent bad habits from developing instead of having to train them out of the dog.
Keeping a dog from being able to commit mischief isn't training, its keeping the dog from being able to creating mischief.

Right, which keeps the dog from developing the habit of creating that mischief.

The dog doesn't
know it can't do something or that something is unwanted if its not first allowed to attempt the mischief and be corrected for it.

Which is why the owner must be supervising when the dog is out of the crate.

But it's far easier to interrupt an inappropriate behavior and substitute an appropriate behavior and make that a habit, then it is to have to break a habit of inappropriate behavior that has already been developed.

With the use of a crate (or proper confinement - and which, by the way does not train the dog to do anything), training is more simplified and streamlined.

Which makes the crate beneficial to the training process.

But the crate doesn't actually train the dog to do anything.

As Ian Dunbar says, "A good habit is as hard to break as a bad habit." So you start by preventing bad habits and teaching good habits.

The best way to prevent bad habits is by a crate (or proper confinement) when the not-yet-trustworthy dog or puppy is not being supervised.

The crate itself doesn't do the training. But it is a tool that is very useful in the training process.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
Two days later (isn't analogue technology grand!), here it is:

Wow! It is so clean and organized!
Beth
I had to go look. It's a 6-volt. That's funny, because 9-volts are so much smaller, but this is the big honkin' kind that kids run their science fair volcanos with.

I like the big honkin' 9V dry cell flashlights. As my emergency (largely unused) flashlight, I rarely change the battery.

At the other end of the scale, little AA flashlights are good too. Last weekend, me'n'mine hunkered down in the tent during a tornado warning while huge chunks o'hail hit on us and lightening dissed us. I was awake all of Saturday day night reading by flashlight and waiting for the End. The dogs survived and Friday led me through the Sunday courses.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Molly usually stakes out her laying down spot before Bonnie gets a chance, so she gets the prime location.

Rocky and Friday are "give and take" and get along wonderfully, one will always shift for the other.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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