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Not in my car. That would be pretty much something if that crate got over the upright seats of my SUV, Explorer.

is the crate secured to the body of the car? if not, i'd be concerned that it could flatten the seats if the impact were hard enough.

If the impact is that hard we are all gone no matter what. That would include
myself since, hey I drive one of those notorious rolling SUVs.
I think Shelly was implying crates, and or seatbelts.

"...crated or restrained in a harness and seat belt."

That's what I said, isn't it.
I do think dogs need one or the other, but ... or the other isn't fit to be a pet owner.

neither did i.

I know you didn't say that. I didn't say you did. I said *I* wouldn't go so far
as to think that an owner that doesn't secure
their pet shouldn't even have a pet. Especially considering how many infants I still see sitting in their parents laps from time to time. And then there are the dogs in the back of the pick-up trucks around here. It drives me crazy but when I know how many dogs die daily at the shelter/pound and the dog in the back of that pick-up truck probably has a good life. It may not be a long good life. It is irresponsible, but you aren't going to change people from doing what they are gonna do. As long as the numbers are so high with weekly/daily euthanization at shelters, I just can't get too ruffled about how people should drive with their dogs. Even though it does stir me up and I wouldn't do it ever.
Gwen
I realize I'm not arguing from a very defensible position, but 'pretty much something' is exactly what happens in serious accidents.

Your decision is quite defensible. A dog who is trapped inside a metal cage, in a serious accident, could find himself crushed, impaled, burnt alive, etc...because it could be extemely difficult, if not impossible to remove the dog from the car if his cage is crushed around him, or the vehicle is crushed on top of the cage.
A cage is no guarantee of safety. The most responsible thing to do is limit your dog's exposure to automobiles. And to drive safely when you do. Which is what I do. Which makes me ten times more responsible than shelly!
Also, if you dog is trained, you don't have to worry about the cops.
Also, if your dog is in a cage, you DO have to worry about being carjacked. Not so here.
I hope that heelps.
this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
Cars don't stay
I do have seatbelts for them though. B

If you have seatbelts for them then they are secured.

I prefer crates just because of Blade's reaction
to strangers approaching my car, but that is
me.
Seatbelts are just as good, if possibly not better.

Gwen
Nor do I. I leave my dog loose in the car because I'm lazy and cheap, and because he gets ... when he's got his whole bed to lie on. I think it's because he wants to be close to us.

he does. and he's having a lot more fun than the dogs stuck in their cages.

this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
Seatbelts are just as good, if possibly not better. Gwen

They don't help the case of wet, muddy dogs even a little bit! ;-D

Since mine love to be wet and muddy, crates are ideal containment systems! They have water beds in them, water buckets, a chew toy, fans front and back (besides AC in the car of course), tinted windows.. But they aren't the least bit spoiled.
Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com /
Maybe for some but not all. My dog isn't crated whenever I can't supervise, just when no one will be around (as in on the property somewhere) for more than a half hour. We frequently do things outside or in the garage while the dogs are unattended indoors.
But the goal isn't to keep him in the crate for his whole life, it's to produce a dog who ... training is successful when the dog no longer needs to be crated, but doesn't mind (or enjoys) when he is.

No, crate training is successful when the dog doesn't rebel against or have anxiety reactions while in the crate. It is a management tool and has nothing to do with producing or molding a dog into being trustworthy when left alone. IMO that end result is primarily a combination of individual personality coupled with age.

Tara
I think I might feel better about a harness or seat belt than I would a crate. I've never even ... ride with my back seats down all the time. Hmm. May not be able to do a belt after all.

I have a similar problem. I tried a seat belt with Khan, when we only had him, but between his incessant whining, and twisting around until the he was good and tangled, I gave up on it and returned it. It was something I picked up at Petco; maybe I should just get something that's built better. With the two dogs, I can't ride with the seats up, because they don't fit into the back seats. Between one dog who can't be crated, and another who can't be harnessed, I've just given up.

I considered crating Khan in the back, and leaving Pan in the back seat, but Khan is not amenable to that suggestion. It's okay for her to be closer to the human if he's giving up his position voluntarily, but not okay for him to be forced to stay in the back while she stays up front. He also gets his nose terribly bent out of joint if he can't get to the windows and she can. When Khan's PO'd, he takes it out on Pan, even if she had nothing to do with anything. Believe me, it's not fun for her.

Suja
Reason two I probably should be crating. Although I have qualms about putting a wire crate in the car, getting ... Does anyone use wire crates in cars, or are all the people on this thread using plastic crates for travel?

I use wire. Obviously heavy gage wire is better than lighter gage wire. But if you're in a truly awful wreck, the dog's chances are still better in ANY crate than they are if he's loose.
berlin.de:
No, crate training is successful when the dog doesn't rebel against or have anxiety reactions while in the crate. It ... into being trustworthy when left alone. IMO that end result is primarily a combination of individual personality coupled with age.

Yes. I've never understood the term 'crate training' in a context of learning how to behave in the house alone. Just as leaving a puppy outside in the yard does nothing to teach him how to behave inside, crating a puppy does nothing to teach him how to behave when alone and uncrated.

As you said, it's a management tool that sometimes becomes unnecessary due to the dog's maturity and comfort level in the environment. And then there are people like me, who use it as a management tool for the length of the dog's life because of an inability or unwillingness to properly train the dog or to manage other environmental factors.
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