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Seatbelts are just as good, if possibly not better. Gwen

They don't help the case of wet, muddy dogs even a little bit! ;-D

Hey gotta agree there. Yet another reason I use a crate.

They work. Your seats don't get all wet and muddy
and then smell terrible days later.
Since mine love to be wet and muddy, crates are ideal containment systems! They have water beds in them, water ... (besides AC in the car of course), tinted windows.. But they aren't the least bit spoiled. Janet Boss http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com /

I agree Janet. I use crates. And Blade does not like seatbelts.

He does enjoy his crate ride.
Gwen
If the impact is that hard we are all gone no matter what. That would include myself since, hey I drive one of those notorious rolling SUVs.

it doesn't take a terribly hard impact to launch a projectile like an unsecured crate. a friend of mine was carting a big old tv around in the back of her car. she had a moderately serious accident, but she thankfully wasn't harmed because the tv flew out the side window instead of toward the driver's seat.
That's what I said, isn't it.

no. what you said was that you thought that's what i was saying. since i was pretty clear in my meaning, i don't understand why you found it ambiguous.

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
not if it's properly secured.

I have doubts (see my post to Gwen; have you ever seen a horrifying mangled car up close?), but I realize I'm quickly taking this into the good vs. perfect territory.

I just did on the news last evening. An 18 year old DWI died. The car was not recognizable.
I do understand your arguements. I just have my own reasons for crating.

One being how Blade behaves when strangers approach the car. He is in used to be in my lap in no time. Of course that would not occur anymore using the "NL" system but I still like having him in a crate.

Even though your points are valid enough.
Gwen
leave vacations, his her was to I have a few ... you not let him run free in the home.? Pat.

You and gswork are assuming the dog doesn't like being crated. Many dogs do, particularly if they were raised that ... a unique case so I wish people would stop assuming that crated dogs are miserable or being cruellytreated. Tara

I guess it is ok to crate/cage a dog short time ie NO longer than two hours. However some people do it for hours on end.
If a dog cannot move about they do NOT get any exercise. A crate/cage is ok if after the dog reaches a year or so then the door is left open.
That way they have the best of both worlds.
Training a dog works wonders to..so why not train them. I guess if a dog is shut in a cage for hours on end it will not learn good behaviour.
If people went out and left a baby in a cot all day~they would be put away. I go out leave my two dogs and two cats in my house I never had any problems.
Pat.
I have doubts (see my post to Gwen; have you ever seen a horrifying mangled car up close?), but I realize I'm quickly taking this into the good vs. perfect territory.

obviously, in a really serious accident, it won't matter.
I think I might feel better about a harness or seat belt than I would a crate.

that's how i feel. i'll use a crate in a pinch, but i much prefer a harness and seat belt.
I've never even looked at them.

http://www.ruffrider.com /
and
http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/product detail.asp?pf%5Fid=204160801&dept%5Fid=383&brand%5Fid=&Page=&SearchName=&mscssid=2JUP1KEG4X3F9NHDLGUQP4CGGF1C83C9 or
http://snipurl.com/69u1
Do you know if they generally are available only to hook into seat belts? Because I ride with my back seats down all the time. Hmm. May not be able to do a belt after all.

ideally, you'd hook it to the seat belt, or better yet, directly into the female end of the seat belt mechanism (
Nor do I. I leave my dog loose in the car because I'm lazy and cheap,

see, now that i'll buy. i may not like it, but i'll buy it. at least you aren't laying the responsibility for it on your dog's behavior and/or lack of training.
and because he gets a lot of enjoyment of sticking his head out the window, which I let him do whenever I'm driving below about 45.

he could do that with a harness and seat belt!
When he's not doing that, he's lying down with his head facing forward on the armrest between the front seats. ... when he's got his whole bed to lie on. I think it's because he wants to be close to us.

that might be problematic. he should be able to lie down, but in order for the harness arrangement to work, the dog shouldn't have quite that much room to move around. if he can put his chin on the arm est, the harness/seat belt has too much play.

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
what would you do if you were pulled over by the police for some reason? there was a case last year where a family's dog was shot and killed by police because it jumped out of the car when they were pulled over.

I feel that it was partly a training issue. For example, my dogs won't leave the car without permission. After that particular incident though, we proofed that one, although it didn't really require a lot of effort. I think it's mostly because the dogs go out with me all the time when the weather is cooler, and it is not at all unusual for them to just hang out near the open door when I'm loading and unloading groceries, mulch, etc. I hope that I never get to find out just how good they are.
Suja
If the impact is that hard we are all gone ... since, hey I drive one of those notorious rolling SUVs.

it doesn't take a terribly hard impact to launch a projectile like an unsecured crate. a friend of mine was ... accident, but she thankfully wasn't harmed because the tv flew out the side window instead of toward the driver's seat.

Well at least mine our sliding around in the back of a minivan.

The crate has never moved an inch, no matter how quickly or fast I have stopped in the past.
I personally do not see how the seats are going to come forward. Especially considering the amount of other stuff I have in the back seats all the time. The crate hits the top of the ceiling.

But hey to make you happy I will secure it, since my SUV does come with 4 places to cargo strap the crate to the bottom of the flooring.
That's what I said, isn't it.

no. what you said was that you thought that's what i was saying. since i was pretty clear in my meaning, i don't understand why you found it ambiguous.

I don't know why most of what I said was snipped but clearly the context no longer makes sense as it is. I never said anything abiguous about your statement. You assumed I was.

Gwen
I guess it is ok to crate/cage a dog short time ie NO longer than two hours.

Hard to get a job that'll let you run home every 100 minutes or so.
If a dog cannot move about they do NOT get any exercise.

OTOH, a dog can be exercised as well as crated.
A crate/cage is ok if after the dog reaches a year or so then the door is left open. That way they have the best of both worlds.

And access to electrical outlets, linoleum, drywall, and vast quantities of socks. In any case, "a year or so" in my breed isn't anywhere near mature.
Training a dog works wonders to..so why not train them.

To do what, exactly?
I guess if a dog is shut in a cage for hours on end it will not learn good behaviour.

Training, like exercise, is an activity dog and human engage in together.
If people went out and left a baby in a cot all day~they would be put away.

If dogs were babies, I wouldn't have 'em in my house.
I go out leave my two dogs and two cats in my house I never had any problems.

That's nice. I'd go out and leave my one dog and two cats in my house and come home to holes in the linoleum, chewed plugs, trash everywhere, and in the summertime the one cat would be missing. (He'd push the screens out of the windows and go walkabout.)
Well at least mine our sliding around in the back of a minivan.

my dogs aren't crated in the car, so i think you must've meant to post that to Robin, not me. HTH!
The crate has never moved an inch, no matter how quickly or fast I have stopped in the past.

okay.
But hey to make you happy I will secure it, since my SUV does come with 4 places to cargo strap the crate to the bottom of the flooring.

i'm not sure what your dog's crate has to do with me.
I don't know why most of what I said was snipped

i snipped it because i didn't think you'd like what i had to say in response.
but clearly the context no longer makes sense as it is. I never said anything abiguous about your statement. You assumed I was.

my apologies. i'm not sure how else to interpret the phrase "I think*..." there wasn't anything for you to think *about, since it was clearly and specifically worded. but if you want to ponder it, knock yourself out.

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
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