yesterday I adopted a new dog, Harrison, a lab=border collie mix who is supposedly 7 mos. old (I think more like 5) not yet house trained. I already have a smaller 8-year old dog (jack russell with some chihuahua) and the two are getting along well. Bingo, the Jack-huahau, is the alpha. Harrison is no wallflower though, they are rambunctious together.
okay, so the problem: Harrison pees in the house when we are on our way out the door. I live on the 4th floor of a condo bldg. so it's a trek to get outside. the front door leads to an indoor hall which leads to an elevator. Harrison has this habit of peeing right inside the door on our way out, while sitting. I just caught him in the act and reprimanded him, and when we got back to the door he resumed...

Outside, he seems to have no interest in marking scent. When he relieves himself, it is without lifting a leg and in the middle of the sidewalk. he smells trees and fire hydrants but never pees on them (quite unlike bingo).
I am using a crate he had accidents in the house the only time I left him unattended.
Any suggestions? This last episode has me concerned. He peed, I punished, he peed again, I punished and he just kept peeing as he looked at me. As if he did not understand why I was upset (sitting there looking like he did not even know he was peeing). I have since done my research I should not punish, but rather startle and then get him outside (problematic, living on the 4th floor as I do...), but the peeing while sitting and the lack of interest while outside, are these signs of submissive peeing? How do I get him interested in peeing outside?
Thanks...
buckaroo
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Any suggestions? This last episode has me concerned. He peed, I punished, he peed again, I punished and he just ... lack of interest while outside, are these signs of submissive peeing? How do I get him interested in peeing outside?

I would take him to a vet first to make sure he doesn't have a medical problem. Urinary tract infections can sometimes make holding it and/or getting it all out in one shot problematic. Also, it would help to know if he was fully sitting when he peed in front of your door or squatting. Sitting would strike me as odd and I would bring it up with the vet. Squatting is, OTOH, common.

Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay
(First, check for medical issues, as Paula suggested.)
Any suggestions? This last episode has me concerned. He peed, I punished, he peed again, I punished and he just kept peeing as he looked at me.

You should be concerned about your inappropriate behaviour. A correction does absolutely nothing if the dog doesn't know the "proper" behaviour to which you want him to adhere.

You punished him for a natural thing, peeing. At the same time, he received a correction because you had neglected his need to pee. You're teaching him that peeing with you nearby is a bad thing.
As if he did not understand why I was upset (sitting there looking like he did not even know he was peeing). I have since done my research I should not punish, but rather startle

Startle, no - distract, yes. Anticipate, way better.
and then get him outside (problematic, living on the 4th floor as I do...), but the peeing while sitting and the lack of interest while outside, are these signs of submissive peeing? How do I get him interested in peeing outside?

You have to take Harrison outside on a schedule, especially since it'll take you 5 minutes longer, being in an apartment. Treat him like a puppy - take him outside when you think he has to go, and make it a party when he does pee.
At this stage you may have to carry him (at least past your door). Meanwhile, clean that area with a good enzymatic cleaner.
Most importantly, don't expect him to be Bingo.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
thanks matt and paula. the peeing is while sitting all the way down... not squatting. doesn't get more stealth than this! i am doing all those things, matt. no need to get on your high horse. i already acknowledged the error of my ways, you are rubbing my nose in it (this rule applies to humans, too). of course, i don't expect him to be the same as bingo. i was making the comment to show their personalities, not out of disappointment.

i really like harrison, but this post has not been put here to prove that. at any rate, harrison has not had any accidents since last night, i am putting the leash on in the kitchen. i think part of the problem is that he thinks the area around the door is like being outside (a fairly common misconception in the dog world, I think). thanks.
i am doing all those things, matt. no need to get on your high horse. i already acknowledged the error of my ways, you are rubbing my nose in it (this rule applies to humans, too).

How did I rub your nose in it?

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
thanks matt and paula. the peeing is while sitting all the way down... not squatting. doesn't get more stealth than this![/nq]If your dog is already a stealth pee-er, it is especially important NOT NOT NOT to have any adverse reaction at all when he has an accident. He has already got the idea that it is best to pee so humans don't see you, and that makes housebreaking a ton harder. If he gets any negative at all from anything related to peeing, it will simply reinforce the idea that humans don't want to see you pee, not that humans don't want you to pee inside. I wouldn't even bat an eye if he peed inside at this point.

Make sure you take him outside enough that he only goes outside, as Matt suggested. Praise, treat and do the happy dance when he goes outside. I have adopted dogs who had been taught by past experience to be stealth pee-ers and absolutely the first step is to teach them that you are happy to see them pee so they can distinguish between the past message that you don't want to see them pee and the new message you want to give them which is that you want to see them pee only outside.

Until the dog gets past thinking that your problem is with his peeing, you're not going to get him to concentrate on where he is doing it, except that he will sneak off and do it where you can't see it and will never be reliable in the house. Tether him to you with a leash tied around your waist when you have him at home with you so you can keep an eagle eye on him and learn what signs he gives when he has to go and he can't sneak off and pee somewhere without giving you any signals.

Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay
thanks matt and paula. the peeing is while sitting all the way down... not squatting. doesn't get more stealth than this! i am doing all

It isn't "stealth" It is an instinctive reaction due to excitement, nervousness or stress. As long as you use a loaded word like that in your own mind you will have difficultly maintaining the neutral behavior on your part necessary to deal with the problem.

Diane Blackman
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Your pup has been through a very confusing time , you've only had him a day and he must be feeling very insecure and unsure of himself . He's not learnt the rules yet and doesnt know whats what. He really can't help the peeing inside and its not deliberate nor was he deliberately disobeying you. . If he's younger than you were told then take into account he is still a puppy.
When you punish or startle a dog for peeing in the wrong place , it will make him more reluctant to pee in front of you in the right place. It will make him very unsure of himself and he will try to pee when you are not watching him. He really didn't understand why you were upset. So first thing to do is not punish or startle and ignore any accidents he has inside and on the stairs , other wise the whole business of going out and down the stairs will be an ordeal for him. Give him time to settle , take him out more often and praise him when he goes outside.
Alison
Thanks for all the great suggestions...
Update: Harrison has had two more accidents in the kitchen while on the leash, getting ready to go out. Always the same pattern, just sitting there looking happy with his ears up and then the fountain turns on...
Since he seems to pee only when I have him on the leash and we are getting ready to leave, I have a few theories: 1. He is nervous about being on the leash (this does not make a lot of sense, though, because he seems fine while on it). 2. He is peeing out of excitement about going outside. OR 3. He associates the leash with "time to go outside and pee" and he just can't hold it in until we get downstairs. Theory # 3 is the leading theory. As such, I am trying to minimize time spent leashing-up in the house so that we can get outside pronto. And, I am rewarding him for doing his business outside.
Matt, no worries, but I was commenting on statements such as: "You should be concerned about your inappropriate behaviour." That's rubbing my nose in it, most definitely. If you read my original email, I admitted I made a mistake (in other words, I did something good) and rather than reward me (i.e., good boy harrisonsdad! you see the error of your ways!) you reprimand me. Nonetheless, you had some great suggestions, which I really appreciate, and thank you for.
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