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I would like to make Max get permission to get on the bed.

why does he need permission?

Because that's what the human wants.
"Permission" is definitely more complicated to teach than a simple "always" or "never", particularly when you aren't right there to either permit or deny.
Is it ok to leave him alone when he gets on bed by himself?

I think this is a personal choice. my dog can go anywhere in the house without asking permission.

Out of curiosity, do you want your dog to ask permission before hopping up into your lap? That's the only "permission" requirement I have; the furniture is fair game, but my lap must be requested.
Because that's what the human wants. "Permission" is definitely more complicated to teach than a simple "always" or "never", particularly when you aren't right there to either permit or deny.

i started off with elliott not being allowed on the furniture at all. never, ever, for any reason, was he allowed up. when he was about 5yo, i decided to let him get on the bed. for a long time, he was convinced it was a trap. he eventually became more comfortable with being on the furniture, but never completely so. he usually waited until i invited him up, or until i was on my way out the door, to get on the furniture.
harriet, OTOH, does not understand the concept of getting permission to get on the furniture. i like having her sit with me and haven't seen any reason to teach her that she's not allowed to do so whenever she feels like it. that includes flopping over onto my lap while we're watching teevee, but i don't have a problem with that. she knows "off" and will remove herself from me and/or the couch when told.
Out of curiosity, do you want your dog to ask permission before hopping up into your lap? That's the only "permission" requirement I have; the furniture is fair game, but my lap must be requested.

i haven't a clue how this came about, but harriet has developed the habit of snorting at me whenever i'm at the computer and she wants to get in my lap. she comes and sits very politely by my side and blows Boxer snot all over my legs. charming, eh?

shelly
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why does he need permission?

Because that's what the human wants.

I was curious about the reason why they wanted the dog to ask first not just that they wanted it.
"Permission" is definitely more complicated to teach than a simple "always" or "never", particularly when you aren't right there to either permit or deny.

I think this is a personal choice. my dog can go anywhere in the house without asking permission.

Out of curiosity, do you want your dog to ask permission before hopping up into your lap? That's the only "permission" requirement I have; the furniture is fair game, but my lap must be requested.

My dog doesn't have to ask to do anything. He has been taught what he can and can't do and for the most part, I have no problems with him. For example, he knows he is allowed on the furniture and the bed so he just goes on it. He knows he can always climb on my lap, snuggle by my side, give me kisses, etc. I don't need him to ask permission first. It is my personal choice to give him as much freedom as he can have without causing trouble.
Because that's what the human wants.

I was curious about the reason why they wanted the dog to ask first not just that they wanted it.

Heh. Humans are inherently irrational creatures. They want what they want.
My dog doesn't have to ask to do anything.

Mine don't have to ask for most things, but they do. I get slimy balls dropped in my lap quite often (Ranger asking to play). I get "cute face" (Duke asking for something). Then there's Duke smacking me on the leg (OUT, NOW!!), and all the other permissions, small and large, that the dogs look to me to provide.
For example, he knows he is allowed on the furniture and the bed so he just goes on it.

Does he climb onto eating surfaces? Kitchen counters, tables, etc?
He knows he can always climb on my lap, snuggle by my side, give me kisses, etc. I don't need him to ask permission first.

You neither crochet nor cross-stitch, then. That, or Maui climbs and doesn't launch into your lap. Lindy has darned near impaled herself on the tools of my various hobbies, not to mention the startlement factor of a 25 lb dog rocketing into an otherwise-preoccupied human's lap.
My dog doesn't have to ask to do anything.

Mine don't have to ask for most things, but they do. I get slimy balls dropped in my lap quite ... the leg (OUT, NOW!!), and all the other permissions, small and large, that the dogs look to me to provide.

my dog sits at the door when he needs to go potty, but I don't consider that asking to go out, more like him telling me what he needs. I guess that is just a different way to looking at the same things. I interpret him telling me his needs, not really asking permission to do what he knows he needs to do. as for the playing, Maui will bring me a toy when he wants to play with me but again, I don't see it as asking for permission to play with me but rather inviting me to play along with him as opposed to the times when he just wants to play alone.
For example, he knows he is allowed on the furniture and the bed so he just goes on it.

Does he climb onto eating surfaces? Kitchen counters, tables, etc?

he's too little to reach the counter but when he was a puppy he would jump on the kitchen chairs and paw at the garbage to knock food out. He has since been taught not to do that it is no longer an issue. But when he was still learning, he saw a chair not pushed in all the way to the table as permission to jump up and get on the table for food. Now, he sees an open chair and ignores it because he knows it is off limits.
He knows he can always climb on my lap, snuggle by my side, give me kisses, etc. I don't need him to ask permission first.

You neither crochet nor cross-stitch, then.

you are correct, I don't do that.
That, or Maui climbs and doesn't launch into your lap.[/nq]Maui often lauches up onto my lap out of nowhere it seems when I am typing at the computer or sitting here doing paperwork. it is funny to me because of how high he can jump and he did it to my dad once when he was sitting here and my dad was so startled because he had never seen it. Plus Maui gives no warning so it is a big surprise. I don't discourage it because not only do I not mind (nor does anyone else who he has ever done that too) but I like it because he almost always just comes up to give me a kiss or to get his face stratched or for some snuggling and I don't want to discourage those loving, affectionate behaviors.

However, if it was unsafe for him to do this, I would of course, teach him not too.
Lindy has darned near impaled herself on the tools of my various hobbies

that is a safety issue then and I understand why you would need to teach her to stop and think before she leaps.
Mine don't have to ask for most things, but they ... and large, that the dogs look to me to provide.

my dog sits at the door when he needs to go potty, but I don't consider that asking to go out, more like him telling me what he needs.

Do you ever ask him to wait a minute or two, while you finish up something? Does he ever fib? (Mine do!)
I guess that is just a different way to looking at the same things.

Well, there's that, plus I've got three dogs hanging around at any one time which tends to divide one's attention.
Maui often lauches up onto my lap out of nowhere it seems when I am typing at the computer or ... my dad once when he was sitting here and my dad was so startled because he had never seen it.

Good thing you've got a small dog and sturdy dad, eh? Maybe it's because all my dogs have been good-sized cannonballs, or because my occasional guests tend to be very old or very young, but I don't find an unexpected lapful of dog all that much fun. Besides, I don't want Lindy giving Duke any ideas .
Plus Maui gives no warning so it is a big surprise. I don't discourage it because not only do I not mind (nor does anyone else who he has ever done that too)

Yet.
but I like it because he almost always just comes up to give me a kiss or to get his face stratched or for some snuggling and I don't want to discourage those loving, affectionate behaviors.

He'd just substitute other loving, affectionate behaviors. Dogs are adaptable critters, and can put up with all sorts of human oddities.

Whatever works for you and yours, of course. Which is why I don't get too hung up in the "why" for someone's house rules.
my dog sits at the door when he needs to ... go out, more like him telling me what he needs.

Do you ever ask him to wait a minute or two, while you finish up something? Does he ever fib? (Mine do!)

I don't rush right to him, sometimes it may take a minute or two till he gets to go out (if my hands are wet from dishes or I am busy with child care duties, etc). When he goes out, I don't always watch him so I don't know if he fibs with me. Sometimes, I think he just wants to go out and chase bugs but that is ok with me.

I am not hung up in it, I am just curious about why people do certain things. For example, I often ask my sister her rationale for certain things when it comes to her children and the rules they have. I am just very curious about people and why they do or don't do certain things. It helps me understand them better and their perceptions on the world, how they might act in other situations, etc.
i started off with elliott not being allowed on the furniture at all. never, ever, for any reason, was he ... until i invited him up, or until i was on my way out the door, to get on the furniture.

You ruined it for me. I started reading and immediately though "until Harriet came along and bloew the no-furniture rule sky high'.
harriet, OTOH, does not understand the concept of getting permission to get on the furniture. i like having her sit ... don't have a problem with that. she knows "off" and will remove herself from me and/or the couch when told.

This is a Boxer trait shelly, except for the part about getting off when told. Some obey, some don't, its usually the boys who listen and the girls who don't. You got lucky.
i haven't a clue how this came about, but harriet has developed the habit of snorting at me whenever i'm ... lap. she comes and sits very politely by my side and blows Boxer snot all over my legs. charming, eh?

No need to wonder any longer, its another Boxer trait. Fancy, Joe Joe and every Boxer I've ever had has done this. Some even get put out with me when I ignore the snot-blowing and begin woo-whining, sometimes coupled with a paw on the leg. Their heads are so damned big its not like I can't see them sitting there or hear & feel the snot-blowing behavior. For some reason they think the woo-whine and paw-on-leg will work where the snot and stare failed. I guess I've taught them that it does work since by then I've lost whatever concentration and interest I had in what I was doing. For the sake of my sanity its just easier to give in (they've trained me well).

Tara
I would like to make Max get permission to get on the bed. But how do I do it, when ... is already up there. Is it ok to leave him alone when he gets on bed by himself? Please advise.

I'd think you could attempt to train it using a "wait" like you would train a dog to let you cross a threshold first. Commanding him to wait and then releasing him to "bed" is what I'm thinking. As your training sessions progress you increase the wait time until it gets to the point that he doesn't "bed" until he's told to.

Tara
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