There are definitely a few different camps when it comes to e-collars. First, there's the NO e-collar group and the YES e-collar group. Among the YES' it gets little more complicated. The Nero thread sure had a lot of different views expressed!
I'm not against e-collars, but I do get a little tired of the faction who uses them from day one, 24/7. Most of those folks get pretty preachy about them being the only or best way to train, and that's just not true for any tool.

My main objections to using them for "regular" stuff, rather than special-need:
1) I don't want a damn box on my dog's collar all of the time. I have enoughleg bruises from tails, TYVM.
2) expense. a decent e-collar isn't cheap. My allergist told me he thinksthey should be mandatory with getting a dog, as a normal expense, but I can't agree.3) I prefer to do as much training as possible with the tools that will beavailable to me at the time of actual use. That means that while prong collars are wonderful tools, I am going to work dogs going into obedience competition, on a slip collar, since prongs aren't allowed in the ring. Agility is nekkid, so that's a fast goal. Flyball is off leash as well (although I use harnesses to encourage forward pulling). Field work. If you're going to ACTUALLY hunt, and intend to use the collar for that, makes perfect sense.

At some point though, you need to work the dog collarless, since they can't wear one in trials. My dogs are "just dogs" most of the time, which means off leash all sorts of places. I don't want to have to have clickers, treats, e-collars, or anything other than ME to be able to control them. I do use a leash on streets for a variety of reasons, the law being one of them, but the leash fits easily in my pocket when it's not on my dog.
4) I'm tired of batteries and remote controls! ;-D

Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com /
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There are definitely a few different camps when it comes toe-collars. First, there's the NO e-collar group and the YES ... don't want a damn box on my dog's collar all of the time. Ihave enough leg bruises from tails, TYVM.

Hi Janet,
Once the dog is trained why does he still need to wear the collar all the time?
Alison
Hi Janet, Once the dog is trained why does he still need to wear the collar all the time? Alison

If you read Janet's post, you'll see that she does not use e-collars, but she
does prefer to train with the equipment that will be available in "real life."
It is not practical to have a dog wear an e-collar all of the time. The collar
must be snug in order to work, and it's thought that long-term wear is likely to cause neck irritation.
But beyond that, IME a dog is never "trained" to the extent that it turns

off the ability to learn new and alternative behavior. If you want its responses to remain static, you must reinforce them somehow.

Some of us who use e-collars transition to other means of maintaining behavior, while others keep on using the collar.
Amy Dahl
Correct, more or less. I DO use e-collars at times, but not on my own dogs. It's not that I WOULDN'T, but I haven't felt the need to. I have used electronics with Franklin in another application.
It is not practical to have a dog wear an e-collar all of the time. The collar must be snug in order to work, and it's thought that long-term wear is likely to cause neck irritation.

Yet, there ARE some trainers who DO just that. Except for re-charge time, the collar is on all of the time. They feel that it should be on an available should they need to "communicate" with the dog. I watched one person, too lazy to just call a little dog (not even this person's), "page" the dog with a stim that made the dog jump and yipe out of a sound sleep. Somehow, I just feel that was a fair use of the collar.
But beyond that, IME a dog is never "trained" to the extent that it turns off the ability to learn new and alternative behavior. If you want its responses to remain static, you must reinforce them somehow.

Absolutely - "trained" is a relative term anyway, but no dog (or person!) could ever be 100% trained - there's always new stuff to learn!
Some of us who use e-collars transition to other means of maintaining behavior, while others keep on using the collar. Amy Dahl

Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com /
If you read Janet's post, you'll see that she does not usee-collars, but she does prefer to train with the equipment that will be available in"real life."

Hi Amy, I know that, the dog in question is hypothetical.
It is not practical to have a dog wear an e-collar all of the time.

I assumed that , that was why I was asking why the hypothetical dog was wearing the collar all the time.Emotion: smile)
But beyond that, IME a dog is never "trained" to the extent that itturns off the ability to learn new and alternative behavior. If you wantits responses to remain static, you must reinforce them somehow.

That's true for any method of training.
Alison
Correct, more or less. I DO use e-collars at times, but not on myown dogs.

Hi Janet ,
I know that. I took your post too seriously, I've lost my sense of humour today; I find the threads about shock collars depressing, more so after reading the bit below.
Alison
Somehow, I just feel

that was a fair use of the collar.

OOPS - I meant to type - I just feel that was NOT!! a fair use of the collar! Ack!
Janet Boss
http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com /
Correct, more or less. I DO use e-collars at times, but not on my

own dogs. Hi Janet , I know that. I took your post too seriously, I've lost my sense of humour today;

No, Alison Number Two you've never had a sense of humor.

N-E-V-E-R.
I find the threads about shock collars depressing, more so after reading the bit below.

That's why drug company stocks are soaring these days, Alison Number Two. Because of people who get depressed over the silliest, stupidest and least significant of things.
In fact, I'm getting depressed just thinking about that...
Alison

Yet, there ARE some trainers who DO just that. Except ... just feel that was a fair use of the collar.

Hopefully, whoever wrote the above (Janet?) didn't actually mean to say that the above was a fair use of the collar.
Because it most definitely was not.
My dogs never wear a collar, e-collar or otherwise, when they're not TRAINING.
And even when they are wearing one, they can go for weeks without me needing to push the button once.
Yes, individual horror tales always get the blood flowing, as they rightly should. But e-collars are still perhaps the most humane, most effective training tool ever devised, when they're used by an experienced and competent trainer.

Handsome Jack Morrison
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Somehow, I just feel

OOPS - I meant to type - I just feel that was NOT!! afair use of the collar! Ack!

I was referring to the lazy git "paging" his dog but I'm glad you clarified that:
Alison
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