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I know many people have Jack killfiled but he does have good training advice, IMHO. I just don't get bogged ... about that either. Life is too short and I read this stuff for pleasure, not to raise my blood pressure.

I don't have Jack killfiled (sorry, Jack!). I was trying to make a funny.

Lynne, not quitting my day job
Silly woman! You are supposed to let the *** whelp under the porch and not worry about niceties like finding homes, doing the super puppy program.

She was one week from doing just that. At the time, there was snow and it was bitter cold. Her former family loved her, but they just let her out to roam.

http://4dsgn.com
Who do you think would be in a better position to carry on the continued socialization, training, etc. for, say, 7-9 pups. You? Or 7-9 families?

In OUR reality, 5 families. That's the honest truth.

I understand the point you are making and I certainly don't disagree in principle. We can't devote the time to the puppies that they need. It's important for them to be in homes. Each of those puppies deserves more individual attention than they are getting. Each of them needs a good home.
If we keep the puppies longer, the price we will pay for everything else in our lives will be too dear. Perhaps that's shirking our responsibility to the puppies, but I think we've done the best we could do under the circumstances.

http://4dsgn.com
If we keep the puppies longer, the price we will pay for everything else in our lives will be too dear. Perhaps that's shirking our responsibility to the puppies, but I think we've done the best we could do under the circumstances.

You did a stunning job. Don't let one *** tell you any different.
Who do you think would be in a better position ... training, etc. for, say, 7-9 pups. You? Or 7-9 families?

In OUR reality, 5 families. That's the honest truth.

Now try to imagine how much more work a litter of 7-9 pups would require, if you do everything correctly, like you seem to have done.
I understand the point you are making and I certainly don't disagree in principle. We can't devote the time to the puppies that they need.

Nor can most breeders. You sound like you've done an excellent job so far!
It's important for them to be in homes. Each of those puppies deserves more individual attention than they are getting.

You bet. There are only so many hours in a day. One or two people simply cannot give 7-9 (or even 5!) pups all the individual attention they require at this point in their lives.
Anyway, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
Each of them needs a good home.

You bet.
If we keep the puppies longer, the price we will pay for everything else in our lives will be too dear.

That too. Devoting all the time you already have, for 7 weeks or so, is more than enough. It's time to get some help.
It's best for the pups, and it's best for you.
Provided you've picked good homes for them, and I'm sure that you have.
Perhaps that's shirking our responsibility to the puppies,

In my opinion, you're doing just the opposite.
You've met your responsibility, and then some.
but I think we've done the best we could do under the circumstances.

You're doing what's best for the puppies by letting them go. Some folks just cannot do that. And it's understandable. It's tough to say goodbye to a bunch of puppies, all the puppy breath, etc.

But it's the right thing to do.

Handsome Jack Morrison
20 Greatest Guitar Solos Ever, With Videos:http://cityrag.blogs.com/main/2007/01/100 greatest gu.html

Democrats' silence on jihad is deadly:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial opinion/oped/articles/2007/01/24/democrats silence on jihad is deadly/
If we keep the puppies longer, the price we will ... we've done the best we could do under the circumstances.

You did a stunning job. Don't let one *** tell you any different.

As seemingly the *** in question, I'd like to point out that I wasn't telling Montana "any different." I was agreeing with her plan to place the pups into their permanent homes ASAP.

You and Melinda are very poor representatives of the "reality based" community.
Or maybe you're not.

Handsome Jack Morrison
20 Greatest Guitar Solos Ever, With Videos:http://cityrag.blogs.com/main/2007/01/100 greatest gu.html

Democrats' silence on jihad is deadly:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial opinion/oped/articles/2007/01/24/democrats silence on jihad is deadly/
Now try to imagine how much more work a litter of 7-9 pups would require, if you do everything correctly, like you seem to have done.

Imagining how we'd handle something (like kids or more puppies) is a chump's game.
Being childless, I don't give my friends advice about child rearing. I'm guessing 7-9 puppies is a whole different ballgame! We wanted to do more for the puppies, but could only do the best we could. I think we did ok. We play the hand we're dealt the best we can and bluff when necessary. Could we do things differently or better? Certainly! I think doing "everything correctly" is terribly subjective. We just didn't mess up too badly.
All you have to do is about a thousand different things, find more hours in the day and shut down nearly everything else in your life.

You've been herding a big passle 'o puppies lately?

http://4dsgn.com
Now try to imagine how much more work a litter ... you do everything correctly, like you seem to have done.

Imagining how we'd handle something (like kids or more puppies) is a chump's game.

Not in my opinion. If 5 puppies require X amount of time to raise, say, 5 puppies properly, for 7-8 weeks, it shouldn't be too difficult to imagine how much time it would take to do that for 7-9 puppies, etc.
Being childless, I don't give my friends advice about child rearing. I'm guessing 7-9 puppies is a whole different ballgame!

That would be a good guess!
We wanted to do more for the puppies, but could only do the best we could. I think we did ... things differently or better? Certainly! I think doing "everything correctly" is terribly subjective. We just didn't mess up too badly.

For some strange reason, I'm getting the impression that you think I'm criticizing you. Robin appears to share that same impression.

What exactly have I said to give you that impression?

I don't know how much more clear I could have been, that I thought you were doing a wonderful job, etc.
And that placing them in permanent homes at 7-8 weeks is a "good thing."
Maybe it's true. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus.
You've been herding a big passle 'o puppies lately?

I herd "big passles of puppies" all the time. Sometimes there are as many as 10 Labrador pups in just one litter. I know how much work and time it takes to do that for just 7-8 weeks, which is why I really get a laugh out of certain "behaviorists," many who have never raised even a single litter of puppies, claim that it's better for pups to be kept with their mom and littermates for 10-12 weeks.

It can be a fulltime job for one person to properly socialize, care for, train, etc. just one puppy. It's basically impossible, in *my* opinion, for, say, one person, and maybe a spouse, to properly do that for 10-12 weeks, with a large litter.
And who then ends up getting the short end of the stick?

The puppies.

Handsome Jack Morrison
20 Greatest Guitar Solos Ever, With Videos:http://cityrag.blogs.com/main/2007/01/100 greatest gu.html

Democrats' silence on jihad is deadly:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial opinion/oped/articles/2007/01/24/democrats silence on jihad is deadly/
I herd "big passles of puppies" all the time. Sometimes there are as many as 10 Labrador pups in just ... 10-12 weeks, with a large litter. And who then ends up getting the short end of the stick? The puppies.

Ah. You asked leading questions which could have been interpreted in a couple of different ways. When I read it, I wondered whether you were suggesting that keeping them longer was better. I answered you honestly and tried not to be (too) defensive, but that's not always easy (when you're riding the roller coaster). Your next post made your position clearer (and thanks for the kind words). This post is clearer still.

You seem to have a lot of experience with litters and we don't. Because we don't know any better and have read that same advice about how long to keep the puppies, there's a question in our minds, wondering if we are doing the right thing.
There are a lot of choices to be made and there are no clear-cut answers. Because this was a total surprise and we were completely unprepared, our confidence level wasn't too great. Of course, had we been prepared, it probably would have been the same!

It is more than a full time job to care for puppies. It is really hard work. And there's nothing like a large dose of reality to change your thinking.
We could keep them longer, but we were very concerned about doing that. Some of that was based on unfounded fear. Some of it was based on the fact that we are tired. Some of it was based on the comfort of having a plan with a clear timetable.
We ADORE these puppies. It's time for them to leave!

And while my rational self can do the math regarding additional puppies, my emotional brain can't quite grasp it. We would have dealt with more, we would have worried more, and we would have cuddled more. I don't think we could have slept less, though!

http://4dsgn.com
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