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Or they may have a dog that will be okay ... dog and visiting dogs to a minimum and well supervised.

I think that's good advice, no matter what the possible breed. The dogs I've had (not pits), the aggressive females have tended to be aggressive toward either sex, and the males only toward other males.

I think it's better for all breeds to be safe instead of sorry, but I'd be especially diligent about it if I might have a pit or pit mix on my hands. I wish more people understood that when dogs have been bred for generations to be a certain way, it pays to know what the breeding was producing and work with that instead of against it. Some dogs are better bets at finding ways to have lots of visiting and/or family dogs than others. Dogs bred to fight other dogs, fight hard and fight to the death not being one of those better bets should be a no-brainer.

Paula
I meant, not everyone was wondering. Like I said, he disappears for long periods of time.

I have never disappeared in my entire life! I.e., I'm always somewhere.

Post proof or retract.
Paula
I herd "big passles of puppies" all the time. Sometimes ... up getting the short end of the stick? The puppies.

Ah. You asked leading questions which could have been interpreted in a couple of different ways. When I read it, I wondered whether you were suggesting that keeping them longer was better.

Not at all. Placing them in good homes right now is the very best thing you can do for them, in my opinion.
I answered you honestly and tried not to be (too) defensive, but that's not always easy (when you're riding the roller coaster). Your next post made your position clearer (and thanks for the kind words). This post is clearer still.

Great. I'm glad I was finally able to make myself clear.
You seem to have a lot of experience with litters and we don't. Because we don't know any better and ... how long to keep the puppies, there's a question in our minds, wondering if we are doing the right thing.

You are, indeed, provided the homes you have chosen for them are prepared to immediately carry on with the pups' socialization, training, etc.
It's still a critical time for those pups.
There are a lot of choices to be made and there are no clear-cut answers. Because this was a total surprise and we were completely unprepared, our confidence level wasn't too great. Of course, had we been prepared, it probably would have been the same!

And that's why I think you've done such a wonderful job! You weren't ready for it, yet you accepted responsibility for them and made a lot of very good decisions (from what I've been able to piece together).
It is more than a full time job to care for puppies. It is really hard work. And there's nothing like a large dose of reality to change your thinking.

Which is why I hope that a few of those "behaviorists" who recommend keeping them until they're 10-12 weeks old will eventually walk the walk, instead of just talking the talk.
We could keep them longer, but we were very concerned about doing that. Some of that was based on unfounded ... that we are tired. Some of it was based on the comfort of having a plan with a clear timetable.

You're not a breeder, Montana, yet you seem to have put more into getting things right for these pups than many "breeders" out there do.

I have my own version of the Super Dog program, and have basically been using it for many years now. Mine is more geared to the field, but it acknowledges many of the same concepts. I.e., early neurological stimulation, etc.
We ADORE these puppies. It's time for them to leave!

You bet. It's time to enjoy them vicariously, perhaps offering to help out their new families carry on where you've left off.
And while my rational self can do the math regarding additional puppies, my emotional brain can't quite grasp it. We would have dealt with more, we would have worried more, and we would have cuddled more. I don't think we could have slept less, though!

Heh. I know what you mean.
If you want to try imagining something else, try imagining what the chances are that many puppy mill pups will have of ever being all they can be.
They get virtually no individual attention, socialization, handling, etc.
It should therefore come as no surprise to anyone that many of them end up in our shelters.
I feel pretty sure than none of your pups will, and you should be very proud of that.
Again, nice job!

Handsome Jack Morrison
20 Greatest Guitar Solos Ever, With Videos:http://cityrag.blogs.com/main/2007/01/100 greatest gu.html

Democrats' silence on jihad is deadly:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial opinion/oped/articles/2007/01/24/democrats silence on jihad is deadly/
I wish more people understood that when dogs have been bred for

generations to be a certain way, it pays to know what the breeding was producing and work with that instead ... of visiting and/or family dogs than others. Dogs bred to fight other dogs, fight hard and fight to the death

not being one of those better bets should be a no-brainer.

Exactly - just as JRTs are not a better bet when you own small animal pets or cats, or live in an apartment with thin walls, or don't have time to exercise a dog daily, Coonhounds and Shelties aren't a better bet if you want a quiet dog, JRTs, Beagles and Bassets are not a better bet if you want to let the dog off-leash and don't have much training experience, Border Collies, Aussies, and Shelties are not a better bet if you aren't prepared to deal with nipping, etc. etc. etc.
As I've posted before, I think Pits are wonderful dogs, but wouldn't personally choose to own one - or any other breed with known serious dog-aggression tendencies - because my lifestyle involves a lot of time spent with my dogs off-leash around other dogs, and I don't want either the hassle or the responsibility of managing serious dog aggression.

Others would not choose to own MY dogs, because they can, do, and will hunt and kill appropriate prey.
It does require management, in terms of when and where I let them offleash as well as in terms of how much attention I have to keep on them when they ARE offleash and not directly working (e.g. doing agility, playing fetch, etc.). I'd never fault someone for choosing against a sighthound, terrier, or Coonhound, or mix thereof, because it's not something they want to have to handle.
Which is why I hope that a few of those "behaviorists" who recommend keeping them until they're 10-12 weeks old will eventually walk the walk, instead of just talking the talk.

Boy, howdy. But the advice from experts varies wildly. We know a lot of people think 6 weeks is a fine time to let puppies go, and while our state has a law that says you can't SELL puppies until they are 8 weeks old, not too many pay attention. And laws are often stupid and not based on fact or rational thought, but I think 8 weeks is a reasonable benchmark. That also made 6 weeks seem like a fine time to enforce weaning. It also seemed kinder to Ne(m)o to let her dry up and think about her life as a young dog before the puppies are taken away.

She's more interested in playing with Bella than the puppies. She's still very interested in them, but not like before. She joins us in saying that puppies are a LOT of work!
I'm beginning to understand why parents are so offended by the suggestions of childless people.
We could keep them longer, but we were very concerned ... the comfort of having a plan with a clear timetable.

You're not a breeder, Montana, yet you seem to have put more into getting things right for these pups than many "breeders" out there do.

People WANT purebred puppies and they don't know the difference between well and badly bred puppies. Our pups were at a disadvantage from the day they were conceived. We had to pick up some slack because of that.
If you want to try imagining something else, try imagining what the chances are that many puppy mill pups will have of ever being all they can be.

I don't want to imagine that. I don't want to imagine why someone threw a perfectly great Lab mix like our late Tracy out on the street. I don't want to imagine why Doodle's owners were so hideous to her.

We hate the idea of adding to dog overpopulation, but the die was cast.

But I'll tell you, one day we're going to want puppies like the ones we're giving away, and they're going to be nearly impossible to find!

http://4dsgn.com
But I'll tell you, one day we're going to want puppies like the ones we're giving away, and they're going to be nearly impossible to find!

You know how you could be sure to find one?
Foster a pregnant *** and do what you just did, only next time you get to keep one of the pups :-)
Tara
Foster a pregnant *** and do what you just did, only next time you get to keep one of the pups :-) -P

http://4dsgn.com
Which is why I hope that a few of those ... eventually walk the walk, instead of just talking the talk.

Boy, howdy. But the advice from experts varies wildly. We know a lot of people think 6 weeks is a fine time to let puppies go,

If a reasonably knowledgeable dog person (who understands the importance of early socialization, training, etc.) has a choice between getting a puppy at 6 weeks or at 12 weeks, IMO he'd be stupid not to opt for 6 weeks over 12.
There's nothing that the breeder can do that he can't do himself, and be absolutely certain that it was done, etc.
and while our state has a law that says you can't SELL puppies until they are 8 weeks old, not too many pay attention.

It's a stupid law, because it doesn't really guarantee that the pup is going to be better off by waiting.
The law was written with puppy mills (and other large, commercial breeders) in mind, and that puppies shouldn't be shipped too early.

I've never shipped a puppy in my life. I deliver them personnally (via my truck), or the owner comes here to pick him up, or I may hand him off to someone at a field trial, hunt, etc.
Not too many breeders are blessed with my situation, in that almost all of my pups go to performance homes. They know exactly what to do with a puppy when they get one (otherwise they wouldn't get one).
And laws are often stupid and not based on fact or rational thought, but I think 8 weeks is a reasonable benchmark.

It is. 7-8 weeks is ideal, especially for performance dogs.
That also made 6 weeks seem like a fine time to enforce weaning. It also seemed kinder to Ne(m)o to let her dry up and think about her life as a young dog before the puppies are taken away.

You bet. And that should all be in the past by 7-8 weeks (for most breeds).
She's more interested in playing with Bella than the puppies. She's still very interested in them, but not like before. She joins us in saying that puppies are a LOT of work!

They are!
You're not a breeder, Montana, yet you seem to have put more into getting things right for these pups than many "breeders" out there do.

People WANT purebred puppies and they don't know the difference between well and badly bred puppies. Our pups were at a disadvantage from the day they were conceived. We had to pick up some slack because of that.

I think those pups already are showing you just how smart they are.

For example, they were smart enough to pick Nemo for a mother, and you for their "breeder." Emotion: smile

Handsome Jack Morrison
20 Greatest Guitar Solos Ever, With Videos:http://cityrag.blogs.com/main/2007/01/100 greatest gu.html

Democrats' silence on jihad is deadly:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial opinion/oped/articles/2007/01/24/democrats silence on jihad is deadly/