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Yes..Our cats think of the raccoons we feed as part of the family, but then, the raccoons are big enough to take care of themselves, and so it's really the raccoons who don't kill the cats that I should be talking about. The birds, even though we feed them, are considered fair game by the cats..fortunately, the cats aren't fast enough to kill very many of them..I can only remember about three or four birds total in over 10 years, and we have fed many thousands of birds all Winter during that same time period, so the birds are way ahead..We are careful to hang the bird feeders out of the reach of the cats..Well fed cats aren't very good at hunting..It's not a matter of life and death for them, so they just play at it..It's significant that our feral cat never hunts for birds (or anything else) at all.

He has become totally dependent on our cat food, and couldn't care less if he never had to hunt for anything again. I doubt if you could teach your cats compassion..They have identified over 100 different sounds cats make to communicate, and compassion is not one of them..
When will everyone learn that the inside - outside debate will never be solved. It can not be argued, debated, discussed without both sides turning it to a shoving match. Just as it has once again in this thread.

Everyone has their opinion no one can changed another persons mind when it comes to this subject. Why everyone in general tries at all is beyond me. Plus than can't wait to try and prove their point
There are 3 things that are never to be discussed Sex, Religion and Politics Now there is a fourth the inside outside debate.

When will you all learn it is always started by some newbie or a troll ( not that this person was or is ). It is like someone has poured a 55 gallon barrel of gas on a huge pile of garbage. Than here comes this pyromaniac with a wide eyed kid in a candy store look can't wait to throw a match on it and see it burn
There are 3 things that are never to be discussed Sex, Religion and
Politics Now there is a fourth the inside outside debate.

The inside/outside cats debate is really a subdivision of politics, so I wouldn't give it it's own category..And, if I couldn't discuss religion, sex or politics on these forums, then I wouldn't want to be here at all..There isn't anything more important or interesting for me to want to discuss..After all, what could be more fun than trying to teach physics to Rosie O'Donnell?
There are 3 things that are never to be discussed Sex, Religion and

Politics Now there is a fourth the inside outside debate.

The inside/outside cats debate is really a subdivision of politics, so I wouldn't give it it's own category..And, if I ... for me to want to discuss..After all, what could be more fun than trying to teach physics to Rosie O'Donnell?

I can see your point but it deserves it own category due to how much trouble it causes
Rosie already knows Physics she sees it in the mirror every day ;-)
There are 3 things that are never to be discussed ... more fun than trying to teach physics to Rosie O'Donnell?

I can see your point but it deserves it own category due to how much trouble it causes Rosie already knows Physics she sees it in the mirror every day ;-)[/nq]Yes..It has been suggested to me that I join and post to a political newsgroup..but I have found that the huge number of stupid posters on those groups is so overwhelming that they aren't any fun..IOW, there are too few people there that can stick to a rational argument and not revert to dumb name calling if they can't answer my points. They all seem to have a "Rosie O'Donnell" mentality..Religion is even worse.

My atheism is the only rational viewpoint, and the religious just parrot whatever lies they have been told, and can't stick to a rational argument. Also, they all have an ax to grind..They are duty bound to convince me that I am wrong, because it gives them points toward getting into heaven, but I gain nothing by convincing them that I am right, so what's the point?
>> -to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for >> it's
>> really a "gift" that he's offering me and I don't want to appear >> "ungracious".
>> Now this latter observation, I must say, I can't help but be skeptical >> about. Is that really true? Or are we just stretching to ascribe >> "positive" human attributes to our feline buddies, whom we love and >> cherish?
>> If cats were really "givers" by nature, I'd think they're smart enough to
>> figure out a lot of other things we'd prefer to receive rather than a >> dead
>> carcass! Seriously, is there any scientific research to suggest that >> they
>> really are bringing us what they consider a "gift"?

> I don't think looking at it as a "gift" is the right perpective. > As you say, it's too complex a trait to attribute to a cat.

> Mother cats will bring home kills for the kittens. > That may be the basis of the evolution of the instinct. > Instincts aren't reasoned, they are built in.
> Most likely the instinct operates in females even when they don't > have kittens and in males even though they don't normally provide > food for kittens.
> After a cat kills it's prey and eats it's fill it is no longer hungry > and it's no longer satisfying the hunting instinct.

> Therefore weaker instincts are going to take over. > It's going to return home, why not take the animal with it? > It's not a complex behavior, it doesn't require complex motives > to operate.
> We once had a mother cat bring home a full grown pheasant. > Small cat, really large bird.
Large birds of prey will sometimes kill cats..I had a cat who was almost killed by a large osprey..It swooped down onto my rear deck while the cat
was sunning itself, and almost got it..Fortunately, the cat door to our bedroom was right next to the cat, so it escaped inside before the bird could get her..but it was a close call..
I live in Florida, so I see ospreys on a daily basis. Sure, I'd hate to tangle with one if I were a cat, but these birds aren't any larger than 5 pounds or so. I have a hard time believing that an osprey could subdue your average housecat.
Kaarl Hungus explained :
Large birds of prey will sometimes kill cats..I had a ... the bird could get her..but it was a close call..

I live in Florida, so I see ospreys on a daily basis. Sure, I'd hate to tangle with one if ... larger than 5 pounds or so. I have a hard time believing that an osprey could subdue your average housecat.

We got foxes near us but to the best of my knowledge they have not attacked any of the cats.

Count Baldoni
: > : >> -to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for : >> ... larger than 5 pounds or so. I have a hard time believing that an osprey could subdue your average housecat.

This bird looked larger than that to me, but I didn't get a really good look at it..I heard the thump as it hit the wooden floor of out rear deck, and when I looked out, the cat was high-tailing it through the cat door, and the bird was taking off again..Perhaps it was an eagle..I'm not a bird watcher, so I have problems identifying them..We live about a half mile from the river (Willamette) so we get a lot of ospreys..
William Graham formulated the question :
: > : >> -to not react with anger or ... time believing that an osprey could subdue your average housecat.

This bird looked larger than that to me, but I didn't get a really good look at it..I heard the ... have problems identifying them..We live about a half mile from the river (Willamette) so we get a lot of ospreys..

Where I live it is not unusual to see crows chase the buzzards !

Count Baldoni
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