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in thread "Tee" (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
I'd have him tested for kidney function

I'll take him in tomorrow. I should be able to get a sample in the vet's parking lot since Joe ... mark, maybe just because he was raised as an outside dog in the country who was allowed to run acreage.

Possibly, but there is a an anxiety condition where a dog does inappropriate drinking. I forget what the "label" is. But the dog drinks excessively to calm his nerves. What goes in, must come out. How long have you had him?
in thread "Tee" (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
Could be. Fancy hates water...period! I can't stop bathing her though if he won't stop urinating on her.

I'd use a waterless bath for poor Fancy. Yes, she still gets wet, but not terribly.
I'd make certain they are fragrance free products that you clean her with. The more fragrant something is, the more critters like to mark it up.

Barring everything else. I'd keep Fancy separated from Joe Joe.
in thread "Tee" (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
You'll see in another post where I addressed this but I don't find him to be an excesive drinker, not the kind normally classified as such and his frequent urinations seem to be smaller, habit-formed ones moreso than bladder-emptying ones.

I saw that. I'd still rule it out as a baseline if you have the money to do so.
You could give him lots of urination time outside without Fancy where he pees freely, introduce Fancy and zap/citronella/whatever if he lifts a leg near her, then remove her and let him mark bushes, etc. Maybe the vet's parking lot and other places where he feels the need to mark every bush would be a good place to do a bunch of quick rounds. Fine when he pees on bush, bad things happen when he pees on Fancy. You can control whether Fancy is out there enough to be able to ensure that he doesn't get the message that it is bad to pee outside by giving him ample opportunity to pee outside without her there, it seems to me.

OTOH, I certainly would not think negatively of you at all if you decided to ask that he be rehomed in a one-dog household. You have done a lot for not only him but for many dogs who needed homes. There is no requirement that you be willing to take on everything for every dog. It sounds like he'd be a good dog for a one-dog household since he has no house peeing problems. For many families, that would be a godsend right there.

"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay
SNIP> I think its a logical suggestion but I'm very much afraid of confusing him. He, being both boy & ... interfere sometimes then not interfere & give me treats at others? I don't believe he'll see any association to Fancy.

OK...I was assuming that he'd have branes enuf to connect Fancy with this, since you're fairly sure he's intentionly aiming at her, but never having worked with boxers I could have overestimated his braneyness :-)

Hmmm...another wierd thought: when I was expecting the boys, people suggested that I use scent to help Macula distinguish between allowed things and off-limit things. Could you "perfume" Fancy with something unique and then work on him recognizing that peeing on things scented like that is bad (peeing on grass, good peeing on lemons, bad)?
As for Fancy, does she even like baths? (Most boxers ... Evil) Could the multiple baths be why she seems down?

Could be. Fancy hates water...period! I can't stop bathing her though if he won't stop urinating on her. Not only ... in it til its too late) but we allow her on the furniture, both of which create a sanitation problem.

I wasn't thinking so much stop bathing, but what about something like this:

I don't know if that particular thing would work against urine, but maybe there's another out there that would. If not in the dog aisle, what about something for cats or small rodents. If you're headed to the vet tomorrow anyway, maybe they can suggest something.
I guess if the Great Evil Water can't be avoided, maybe lots of cuddles and nummy treats would make it more bearable?
If this were a training exercise, the advice would be ... Sounds like you're trying this but need an effective "interupt."

My voice alone is an effective interrupt but I'm fearing that interrupting any outside urination at all may prove counterproductive later.

At this point, I'd worry less about the later* than I would about the *now.
As you said in another post, if this problem isn't solved soon, Joe Joe has to leave. I'd be looking at aversions now.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
At this point, I'd worry less about the later* than I would about the *now. As you said in another post, if this problem isn't solved soon, Joe Joe has to leave. I'd be looking at aversions now.

I'm using aversions now by always supervising and yelling when I see him lift his leg near her. He stops and comes to me immediately but sometimes I'm too late or his body language doesn't indicate that he's about to approach and pee on Fancy. I do praise him when he potties, just as I do Fancy, because when I witness it habit dictates that I praise "good dog go potty" in my very happy voice. Since I'm supervising outdoor times now I've been witness to all such events.
Having spent the last two weeks interrupting him with no noticable cure in sight I am trying to find another alternative. Joe Joe may get yelled at (which he doesn't like at all and will cower easily) and easily call off but its not a lasting impression, or he chooses to continue the behavior the same as the dogs know the trashcan is off-limits but they choose to raid it anyway. I really don't think he's connecting peeing on Fancy to anything.

Today I had the dogs out due to a need to vacate for an exterminator. I had both dogs on one leash with a coupler because I can't handle two leashes with him pulling like freight train (with a pinch collar on). One of the incidents occured in an outdoor mall. We were walking down the pavement when Fancy sidled to the left to sniff a bush. Suddenly and without even looking at her Joe Joe lifted his left leg and started peeing on her. One second he was walking and the next he was peeing on Fancy. There was no visible warning.
Walking back to the car took us through a treed area where I purposely walked them through in hopes of giving them time to potty if they needed to. Joe Joe made two different attempts to lift his leg on Fancy. Once they were just walking, no trees, bushes or sniffing happening and the other was when she stopped, turned to look at me and he turned, looked directly at her, then sidled next to her and started to lift his leg.

Then an hour later we were at the park, walking the trails, when Fancy was on the left and stopped to sniff a bush. Joe Joe attempted to sniff the bush as well, from behind Fancy, walked up along side her then got immediately called off as I just knew what he was thinking. He looked at me, put the leg down, sat like a good boy, then stood & urinated on her anyway. I don't think it was defiance so much as he was interrupted but as soon as the interruption passed, and he wasn't sure what the interruption was about, he went back to his business.
At home, not an hour later, in the backyard, he peed on her again but I didn't see that one. I'd just opened the door when UPS arrived and I had to run out front to sign for something. It took about 2 minutes total of being unsurpervised that time. Sometimes its just her he pees on for seemingly no good reason. Sometimes it appears to be overmarking. Sometimes he looks and sometimes he doesn't but I'm pretty sure he always knows what he's doing.
Using an electronic collar, something I was considering purchasing anyway for other reasons, would still require my supervision because I'd have to see him in his approach in order to issue a correction. My issues with this are threefold. First, I don't want him to mistake the correction or not understand it at all and its my current opinion that he's not understanding why I call him off. He obeys but he doesn't seem to get the why of it and I am unsure about how to drive that point home.
Secondly, I don't want to indefinitely supervise these two every time they want to go outside to play in the yard. Its just not feasible all of the time. I know there are people who do it regularly but I'm not one of those people and don't plan to become one. I have a large fenced-in backyard for the dogs to play & hang out in without the need for me to babysit them. I'm sorry if anyone thinks that makes me less deserving or less devoted than is allowed a caring pet owner but that's the way it is.

Third, if this behavior isn't 100% curable then he's going to be rehomed and its better to figure that out now, after 7 weeks here, than to figure it out a month from now giving him that much more time to believe this is forever and make it that much more difficult to find himself rehomed later. This is taking into account that should he require rehoming it may well take 1-2 months before the right, approved, home comes along. I do NOT want to lose him but if he has to go then its kinder for him to do it sooner rather than later. There would be no good time for us because the entire family loves him Emotion: sadAll of the above is why I'm desperate for a quick fix. I know they rarely exist and that its frowned upon to hope for one but the situation is desperate. Its not just undesirable behavior but unsanitary, disgusting and requiring heavy effort on the part of all family members to keep it down to a minimum. Fancy is acting withdrawn and the two dogs got into a fight on Sunday. What started as a perfect fit between perfect (IMO) dogs has quickly become something different.

Joe Joe is still an exceptional dog, still a great fit, still the coolest boy I've ever had live with me but this problem is of the deal-breaking kind and I want to find a way to make it disappear quickly. We are the 4th home (okay, we were also number 2) this poor dog has lived in in only 2.5 years and I don't want to see him go to number 5.

what the heck is NILIF?? I lurk and learn but you guys think alphabet soup makes sense to everyone. Sure, it takes time to type but isn't it better to be understood?
what the heck is NILIF?? I lurk and learn but you guys think alphabet soup makes sense to everyone. Sure, it takes time to type but isn't it better to be understood?

Nothing In Life Is Free
Its a training regimen implemented for dogs who are too hard/stubborn/problematic for more average methods. Dogs who have aggression issues usually benefit more from this method than any other from what I've read.
NILIF requires you to be the center of everything. The dog gets nothing without you deciding to give it and often only after you decided to demand something of the dog and have him/her obey you. Dogs have to work for every little thing (by that I mean sit, stay, down, crate, etc) and they eventually realize that they don't rule the world, or your house, but that you do and they come in second.
There are varying degrees of NILIF. IMO there's only one true one and that's the hardcore, 100% strict program. There are pet dog trainers that toss the word around in a very watered-down form where just asking your dog to sit before you give it a treat is NILIF.

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