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We even have a trainer here who trains for a living and didn't know how to properly fit and use a choke chain.

had.
Sets the bar for real high level of "EXPERTS" doesn't it?

this is not rec.pets.dogs.behavior-experts.

shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com /
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com / (updated 7/10/05)
in thread shelly (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
Sets the bar for real high level of "EXPERTS" doesn't it?

this is not rec.pets.dogs.behavior-experts.

You can say that again!
You can say that again!

then why continue to criticize if for being something it's not?

shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com /
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com / (updated 7/10/05)
lots of dogs pull on lead and lots of owners are perfectly willing to put up with it.

Most people in this forum are too interested in training to put up with it.

FWIW, my Masters level agility dogs are pullers when on leash. We all have different lifestyles, and mine involves almost all off-leash stuff. Right now, leash manners aren't a priority here, though I'll put my dogs up against any other dog when it come to off-leash manners.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Most people in this forum are too interested in training to put up with it.

that may be true, but i didn't say they weren't. i said most people. it's a big, wide world and i see dogs pulling on leads all the time. it doesn't seem to be a deal breaker for those owners.

Who said pulling on the leash was a deal breaker? Not me.
Now I disagree. Marking outdoors on things like trees, fire hydrants, fences, telephone poles is perfectly acceptable to me.

i should have said "inappropriate" marking. clearly, what Joe Joe is doing is inappropriate.

Okay. And I would agree that it is clearly inappropriate and that if he can't be stopped he'd have to be placed in a home with no other dogs. Leaving aside the fact of all that bathing (!), as Tara has said it's not fair to the other dog.
You think counter surfing and raiding the trash are acceptable behaviors?

this is my general response to counter surfing: in my house, it isn't a Big Deal (apparently, not in Tara's, either). i'm sure we aren't alone in that. i prefer to deal with it by maintenance, not training.[/nq]
To each his own. I gather that it's something you have to expect with the breed. You know, I didn't suggest that it was some kind of a character flaw if your dog does this. Why be so defensive?
I'm surprised. I would think that for safety reasons alone you wouldn't accept them.

like?

Chicken bones, chocolate..and no, I don't leave stuff out on the counter as a general rule either. I gather that people who have boxers accept that they will probably try counter surf when your back is turned. I never thought counter-surfing and trash raiding was a breed-related characteristic, but hey, live and learn. I guess it's just like the prey drive of many Northern breeds.
Uh, did you see the ?

i did. i thought it was passive-aggressive. apparently, a multitude of rudnesses can be excused by smilies and grins.

I think you are reading far to much into my innocent humorously-intended remarks. Passive aggressive? Ye Gods. Rudeness???
Frankly, to do a good deed by giving a difficult placement a decent home.

that is the last* reason i'd take a dog into my home. not that i *truly question your decision, as it ain't my business.

That wasn't why we agreed to give her a chance, but it *is* the reason why we are keeping her. I can't say I fell in love with her immediately (although I am fond of her), and she is making life a bit difficult for my other dog, whom I adore. But I'm not going to send her back because right at this very moment she is not the most rewarding dog to have around.

It is your prerogative, but the subtext you see is in your imagination, I assure you. And it's my prerogative to attempt to correct your misimpression.
Chill.

bossy much?

No. And I really don't want to get into a fight with you, but I don't understand why you would make such a gratuitously bitchy remark.
FWIW, my Masters level agility dogs are pullers when on leash. We all have different lifestyles, and mine involves almost ... aren't a priority here, though I'll put my dogs up against any other dog when it come to off-leash manners.

and also FWIW, my bratty dogs do not* pull. leash pulling is *really not a good indicator of general training or manners (elliott resents my implication that he might be poorly behaved, so i'm duty bound to point out that he is Very Nearly Perfect).

shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com /
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com / (updated 7/10/05)
yes. clearly, the other stuff is tolerable to Tara. why criticize her for that? she's the one who lives with the dog, not you or me or Janet.

No one HAS criticized Tara.
It's common sense. Most of the people who hang out on dog groups spend a lot of time training and working with their dogs,

I'm actually not sure even that's true. I would guess it's not. And I would point out that my guess ... often as the regulars. But even some of the regulars are pretty casual about what they expect from their dogs.

When I said "hang out" I was thinking of the regulars, many of whom over the years seem to be trainers of their own or other people's dogs. I agree that people who just stop by are probably in the numerical majority, but those aren't the people I was thinking of.
I suppose wearing a muzzle and antijump harness to prevent that would be maintenence.

WTF? cleaning up after myself and not living like a pig is my idea of maintenance.

Heh. I've lived with Rocky so long that "maintenance" has become a way of life, not a conscious decision. His drugs make him hungry and his athleticism make him an extraordinary counter surfer.
I probably could train Rocky to leave the bowl of apples alone - coming home to a quivering dog staring at the apples, a pile of drool in front of him. I find it easier to simply put the apples away and concentrate our training on fun stuff.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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