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"Neutered bitches lived longest of dogs dying of all causes, ... what I read. Do you have any problems reading it?

I had no problem reading it. I also read this: "Cancer was the most common cause of death in the ... males, 34.7% of deaths of neutered males, 50.2% of deaths of entire females, and 39.6% of deaths of neutered females."

That's wonderful. If we lopped off the breast of females at puberty, it would decrease the rate of cancer. But there might be plenty of side effects which would cause the longevity of women to actually decrease as a result.

The fact is, that male dogs who are neutered will live shorter lives than male dogs who are intact, according to one of the largest and longest studies ever done on the subject.
Cancer shmancer.
and this: "The interval between castration and onset of prostatic problems was highly variable, suggesting that castration does not initiate ... into the matter, or did you stop once you found the study that supported the opinion you wanted to hear?

Studies like this aren't done in the U.S. because
it would make a lot of spay/neuter nazis look real bad. They'd have to backtrack on YEARS of lying and distorting and deceiving they've done to facilitate the shoveling of their anti-dog agenda down people's throats.
Or are you so convinced that you are right in ... truth and the facts are of little concern to you?

Someone asked why shelters neuter, I answered, and I'm a Spay and Neuter Nazi? How do you get to that conclusion? I never said that all dogs should be neutered,

I thought you said that neutering male dogs was money well spent in all* cases. But apparently you were saying that, as a "preventative measure" it's money well spent in *all cases.
But this is a mere quibble. You are a spay/neuter nazi. They stand out like Anna Nicole Smith at a street market in Zimbabwe. Very easy to spot.
Don't be ashamed, embrace your s/n naziism.
I'm not a vet. I worked at an animal shelter in a former life,

Ah...
You got PAID to murder dogs, No? And there's a lot of pent up guilt about all the dogs you got PAID to murder, no? So you want to take it out on dogs and dog owners like me, no?
Well assuage your guilt and shame somewhere else,
because myself and my fans don't need the tonic
you're pushing. And that is, intolerance for dogs, intolerance for their body parts, and intolerance
for their behavior. The natural behaviors that made dogs "unadoptable" according to the policies at the "shelter" where you MURDERED dogs for hire. No?
If you feel guilty about MURDERING dogs, go tell it to your psychiatrist. Don't act out against dogs
and dog owners, and against handsome and intact
dogs like these guys:
http://dogtv.com/kwame chazz spring03.jpg
Did you or did you not get PAID to murder dogs?
I don't want to unnecessarily besmirch your pristine reputation as a wonderful and caring dog lover.
Certainly the "shelter" you worked for got PAID
to murder dogs, and if you worked there, you did
too.
however, and I see what the result is when people let their unaltered animals roam free. It seems to me ... reasonable solution to the problem that allows millions of animals to be homeless and to end up destroyed each year.

What "allows" them to be killed is because people like yourself and the organizations you worked for are PAID pet exterminators. There's no crisis. There are HSUS and ASPCA "shelters" who get paid to eliminate pets all over the US. They are simply doing their job.
It's not a crisis, it's a money making endeavor.
I can't remember the last time I saw a stray dog,
and I run with dogs offleash in the urban/suburban concrete wastelands of America every day. I don't
see stray dogs, because they are being effectively rounded up and eliminated.
I DO see plenty of CATS though. Know why? Because CATS a little SMARTER than dogs. They KNOW the people coming to "rescue" them are actually going to KILL them.
So they are a lot less trusting and gullible than the dogs you got paid to murder in the name of "rescue."
Isnt' that correct, Dr. Brat?
Other than that, I'm SHORE you are a nice person and a wonderful dog lover.

Whereas I can tell from the tone of your post that you are neither a nice person nor a wonderful dog lover.

What are you wearing?
Elizabeth

this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
Sally, I'll post them for you, if you'll send them to me (as .jpgs) attached to an e-mail.

Thanks, Jack. I don't think you want these pictures...I chose 10 pictures and attempted to upload them to Yahoo Photos.

Yeah, I saw Melinda's post. They're "huge," huh? Well, if you can find a way to reduce the resolution some (please!), I'll still host them for you.
On the other hand, you probably won't have any trouble uploading your photos to Yahoo, either, if you reduce them.
It didn't seem to be working, even when I tried just one photo, so I lost patience and emailed Melinda one picture of Tasha that shows her from the side.

Yes, I saw it. She's a looker!
He said that he saves photos on the hard drive as they are and cuts them down if he's going to do something with them.

That's a good way to save them, but you have to reduce the resolution quite a bit when you publish them or send them along attached to an e-mail. Any decent image editing program (e.g., Photoshop, Elements, etc.) usually has a "Save for web" function that does this for you automatically. It's actually very easy to do.
And tomorrow, we work with clay.

Hah!

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Little Green Footballs Daniel Drezner http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog / http://www.danieldrezner.com/blog / Glenn Reynolds - InstaPundit Steven Den Beste http://www.instapundit.com / http://www.denbeste.nu / SpinSanity Andrew Sullivan http://www.spinsanity.org / http://www.andrewsullivan.com / Don Luskin Rightwing News http://www.poorandstupid.com/chronicle.asp http://www.rightwingnews.com /
Why do you keep increasing the groups to which this is posted?
I had no problem reading it. I also read this: ... of entire females, and 39.6% of deaths of neutered females."

That's wonderful. If we lopped off the breast of females at puberty, it would decrease the rate of cancer. But there might be plenty of side effects which would cause the longevity of women to actually decrease as a result.

Hello. There's a little bit of a difference in the severity of the two operations.
The fact is, that male dogs who are neutered will live shorter lives than male dogs who are intact, according to one of the largest and longest studies ever done on the subject.

According to one, and only one, study.
Cancer shmancer.

You brought up cancer, I didn't.
and this: "The interval between castration and onset of prostatic ... the study that supported the opinion you wanted to hear?

Studies like this aren't done in the U.S. because it would make a lot of spay/neuter nazis look real bad. They'd have to backtrack on YEARS of lying and distorting and deceiving they've done to facilitate the shoveling of their anti-dog agenda down people's throats.

I see. And you've done your own research, so you're an expert?
Someone asked why shelters neuter, I answered, and I'm a ... conclusion? I never said that all dogs should be neutered,

I thought you said that neutering male dogs was money well spent in all* cases. But apparently you were saying that, as a "preventative measure" it's money well spent in *all cases.

Bingo.
But this is a mere quibble. You are a spay/neuter nazi. They stand out like Anna Nicole Smith at a street market in Zimbabwe. Very easy to spot.

Well, you spotted incorrectly this time. I beleive that dogs which aren't being used for breeding should be neutered. That's not being a nazi.
I'm not a vet. I worked at an animal shelter in a former life,

Ah... You got PAID to murder dogs, No?

No. I volunteered at the shelter and made the animals lives more comfortable. I had nothing to do with putting any of them to sleep.
And there's a lot of pent up guilt about all the dogs you got PAID to murder, no? So you want to take it out on dogs and dog owners like me, no?

I don't understand how this got hostile. Seems to me that you're the one with the axe to grind. Why are you twisting my words?
Well assuage your guilt and shame somewhere else, because myself and my fans don't need the tonic you're pushing. And ... natural behaviors that made dogs "unadoptable" according to the policies at the "shelter" where you MURDERED dogs for hire. No?

No. And this is a public forum, not your fan club.
If you feel guilty about MURDERING dogs, go tell it to your psychiatrist. Don't act out against dogs and dog owners, and against handsome and intact dogs like these guys: http://dogtv.com/kwame chazz spring03.jpg

Chazz, eh? I know who you are now. Never did become the famous dog trainer you were hoping to become, did you? Go to hell, looser.

Elizabeth

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
It didn't seem to be working, even when I tried ... one picture of Tasha that shows her from the side.

Yes, I saw it. She's a looker!

Thanks. She is a Very Good Dog.
He said that he saves photos on the hard drive as they are and cuts them down if he's going to do something with them.

That's a good way to save them, but you have to reduce the resolution quite a bit when you publish ... etc.) usually has a "Save for web" function that does this for you automatically. It's actually very easy to do.

And of course DH knew that, but I didn't. We have Photoshop, I believe, so I'm confident that in a few days I'll be publishing the Hennessey Huskies album.
Mustang Sally
No. I volunteered at the shelter and made the animals lives more comfortable. I had nothing to do with putting any of them to sleep.

Oh, so you were a sucker animal lover. Okay. Shelters rely heavily on sucker animal lovers. It plays into their business plan. High turnover, but a constant supply of gullible people who want to help animals.
And there's a lot of pent up guilt about all ... it out on dogs and dog owners like me, no?

I don't understand how this got hostile. Seems to me that you're the one with the axe to grind. Why are you twisting my words?

As a dog owner, I find hostility in everything
spay/neuter nazis say. It's not personal, but it
is a withering constant barrage, so excuse me
if I perceive hostility anytime I see someone
shoving spaying & neutering down our throats.
I perceive it as an attack on dogs. I perceive
the whole movement to solve the so-called
"pet overpopulation crisis" as an attack on dogs
and dog owners.
A vicious, mindless, amoral bloodthirsty attack.
http://dogtv.com/kwame chazz spring03.jpg

Chazz, eh? I know who you are now. Never did become the famous dog trainer you were hoping to become, did you? Go to hell, looser.

Well, there's no need to make this personal.
It's taking a little longer than I expected, but
everything is going according to plan. Stay tuned. For now, you can see hilights of my debate with
uncle matty at dogtv.com. Overnight sensations
such as myself are usually 5-10 years in the
making.
Have an enjoyable evening.
this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
To answer your question, its not unusual for humane societies to have policies like this (although I haven't yet heard of one who wouldn't make an exception for a show dog) but I've never heard of a shelter doing it.

For purposes of this discussion, what's the difference between a humane society and a shelter?
FWIW, the SPCA Melinda's referring to is the only shelter in the county, and also has the county's animal control contract. I've always thought of it as the SPCA and 'the pound.'
Cate
To answer your question, its not unusual for humane societies ... dog) but I've never heard of a shelter doing it.

For purposes of this discussion, what's the difference between a humane society and a shelter? FWIW, the SPCA Melinda's referring ... county, and also has the county's animal control contract. I've always thought of it as the SPCA and 'the pound.'[/nq]Humane Societies aren't 100% owned & run by the county AFAIK, unlike shelters. Shelters have to take in any dog needing to be taken in (even if all they do is walk it to the back room and euth. immediately) and they have to adopt out any dog wanted by someone who has the money to pay the adoption fee. They are owned & run by the county, fully accountable to, and fully dependent upon the county's resources. Humane Societies, from what I gather (I don't know all the details) are private but accept state/county/national organization grants to operate but are not owned by any such agency.

They don't have* to take in any dog they don't want to nor do they *have to adopt to anyone wanting a dog. Those are the obvious differences down here anyway. It may be that the SPCA falls under the jurisdiction of the national organization rather than that of the county and just accepts the county contracts as you describe. That would make sense and also provide them with a certain amount of leeway in how things are done. I'm guessing it would put them on par with a humane society then.

Tara
Oh, she is. She's a very confident dog, and very ... wants to go home with them. Heck, maybe she does.

Somebody who does a lot of fostering once posted to Sibernet about forming these deep bonds with her foster dogs ... turning a dog over to its new owners, the dog jumps in the new owner's car and never looks back.[/nq]Heh. Bonds with foster dogs are a funny thing. Some foster dogs are reluctant to leave here and turn back to look at the house as they're walking to the new owner's car; others pull at the leash and rush out of the house with barely a "see ya!", as if they know where they're going. One of my favorite foster dogs, who died a year ago from osteosarcoma, used to start wagging his tail as soon as he'd hear my voice at a meet & greet or other event. His owner was more than a little jealous of the greeting I'd get every time I saw him.

Others act like they've never seen me before. However, I happen to know that Tasha's immediate love affair with strangers is just her personality, or perhaps her way of embarassing us. We have in-home petsitters on the rare occasions when DH and I go away together, but a couple of years ago we boarded her with a friend who has a very nice boarding facility. When we went to get her, I could hear her excited, ah, screeching as she heard us approaching.

Tasha's excellent at embarassing us. We used to have a coffee table in the living room that she would get up on whenever people were here. I'd tell her to get off and she'd look at me like she never heard that word before, as if it was common for her to stand on the coffee table.
BTW, are your huskies shedding? Mine started a second halfhearted ... raggedy, which seems strange with the weather cold and snowy.

Mine have conspired to all blow coat twice a year with no two shedding at the same time. It's pretty ... start with and I've been a little concerned about her in the deep cold we've had, but she's been fine.

With twice-yearly blows and no two shedding at the same time, you should have pretty close to year-round coat blowing, eh? That must be delightful. Fortunately it hasn't been that bad here, but this winter blow is weird.
Mustang Sally
For purposes of this discussion, what's the difference between a ... always thought of it as the SPCA and 'the pound.'

Humane Societies aren't 100% owned & run by the county AFAIK, unlike shelters. Shelters have to take in any dog ... of leeway in how things are done. I'm guessing it would put them on par with a humane society then.[/nq]I think this varies from place to place. Sometimes "humane society", "shelter", or "spca" is simply the name an organization chooses for itself. For example, in my county, there is only one shelter or pound: the APL. It is a 501(c)(3) and privately owned and funded. The county and a couple of cities within the county have a contract with the APL to take in dogs picked up by county or city dog wardens. Pursuant to that contract, the APL has to take any dogs brought in by the dog wardens, but doesn't have to take in any other dogs or adopt to people it chooses not to.

Just to make things confusing, the contract with at least one city also covers cats, but the county itself does not pick up stray cats or take any responsibility or action whatsoever with respect to cats. In the neighboring County B, which is considerably smaller and richer, there is a county dog warden, who picks up adult stray dogs only (no cats, no pups) and houses them in its own kennel. I don't know whether the dog warden accepts owner surrenders and I'm not familiar with their adoption policies.

Then there is the Humane Society, which takes in kittens, cats, puppies and owner surrendered dogs. I don't know the specifics of funding for the Humane Society. I believe they accept most if not all dogs surrendered by owners, but they're often euthanized pretty quickly. One county southwest of that is County C, which is even richer than County B. They have a county dog warden that picks up strays and also accepts owner surrenders, and the county dog warden works with rescue groups.

The shelter, a private "no kill" Humane Society, takes cats, kittens, puppies, and dogs which are surrendered by their owners or were abandoned. They only call rescue if they think they will unable to place animals, and although they recently built a brand new facility, they always have a waiting list for owner surrenders. People who can't get their animals into the "no kill shelter" often dispose of the animals themselves, whether by dumping them in the neighboring county or by more permanent means.

Mustang Sally
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