With a twist.My friend has a new foster GSD (7 years old, 100 pounds, no muscle tone and needs to lose weight), and he's making her pull her hair out. Basically, he holds himself the whole day while she's gone to work, but has accidents in the house (both 1 & 2) when she's home. She's basically getting up every time he stirs to let him out, but sometimes he just lets loose before she has the chance to take him out, at least once a day.

He is not making any effort to hide what he's doing, and he'll do it when she's in the shower or getting ready for work, for example. To make matters worse, he will also consume poop, his own and that of other dogs, which makes crate training less than ideal. At the dog park, he walks around actively hunting for poop, and will even lick off the little bits that are left after the humans have cleaned up.
So, basically she needs help with (1) getting it through to him that inside is not for eliminating and (2) getting him to stop eating poop.

The history we have on the dog is that he belonged to a 90 year old, whose son decided that the dad didn't need the dog and brought him to the shelter.

Suja
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With a twist. My friend has a new foster GSD. He is not making any effort to hide what he's doing, and he'll do it when she's in the shower or getting ready for work, for example.

She needs to confine him during those times.
To make matters worse, he will also consume poop, his own and that of other dogs, which makes crate training less than ideal.

Why? Being a poop eater doesn't necessarily mean he's going to poop in a crate and then eat it.
At the dog park, he walks around actively hunting for poop, and will even lick off the little bits that ... (1) getting it through to him that inside is not for eliminating and (2) getting him to stop eating poop.

I would look at the diet very closely, for both the spontaneous elimination and the poop eating. I would also correct his indoor infractions, yes, even after the fact (which is very successful if done PROPERLY).
I would probably be feeding him multiple small meals, timed throughout the day, carefully measured. He would be taken out on leash to eliminate, every hour. I would not wait for signs - take him out on a schedule and praise to the hilt when he goes. The more opportunity, the faster it will sink in that OUTSIDE is the place to go.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
She needs to confine him during those times.

Been tried, without any success.
Why? Being a poop eater doesn't necessarily mean he's going to poop in a crate and then eat it.

He eats it, wherever he poops. The first time he did it was on his drive back to her house from the kennel, after she had made sure that he had eliminated prior to the trip (Spotsylvania shelter to Fairfax City). Yes, he promptly ate it.
I would look at the diet very closely, for both the spontaneous elimination and the poop eating.

She has only had him for 2 weeks, and is hoping that there would be a change if he is fed a better diet. I'm not as hopeful, given his age and the zeal with which he goes around hunting for poop.
I would also correct his indoor infractions, yes, even after the fact (which is very successful if done PROPERLY).

How do you do that properly? She is considering an electronic collar, and setting him up. Not to worry, she's married to an avid hunter, and he knows about proper use of one.
I would probably be feeding him multiple small meals, timed throughout the day, carefully measured.

He is eating 3/4 cups of kibble, twice a day. He needs to lose about 20 pounds, would be my guess.
He would be taken out on leash to eliminate, every hour. I would not wait for signs - take him ... hilt when he goes. The more opportunity, the faster it will sink in that OUTSIDE is the place to go.

I am not sure if she is being consistent about this. Will have to check.

Suja
Been tried, without any success.

What about tethering? It seems to me that hyper-vigilance (in addition to the hourly potty schedule Janet proposed) is called for, or there's not going to be much hope of ever fixing the problem.
He eats it, wherever he poops. The first time he did it was on his drive back to her house ... made sure that he had eliminated prior to the trip (Spotsylvania shelter to Fairfax City). Yes, he promptly ate it.

Wow! How about diapers for car rides? It's not a solution, but that's one instance where there's no way of dealing with the issue when it occurs.
She has only had him for 2 weeks, and is hoping that there would be a change if he is fed a better diet. I'm not as hopeful, given his age and the zeal with which he goes around hunting for poop.

Muzzle for walkies? Again, it's a management approach, but at this point, that's the direction I'd take until I could make some progress with rewiring his brain.
He is eating 3/4 cups of kibble, twice a day. He needs to lose about 20 pounds, would be my guess.

He may be feeling hungry. Are they supplementing his kibble with low cal extras, like green beans and pumpkin? In addition to that, I'd cut the meals into 1/2 cup rations 3x/day.

Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
She needs to confine him during those times.

Been tried, without any success.

Where has she confined him? Where is he when she's getting ready for work? has he been showing other stress signals?
Why? Being a poop eater doesn't necessarily mean he's going to poop in a crate and then eat it.

He eats it, wherever he poops. The first time he did it was on his drive back to her house ... made sure that he had eliminated prior to the trip (Spotsylvania shelter to Fairfax City). Yes, he promptly ate it.

I believe that, but has he done so in an actual crate?
I would look at the diet very closely, for both the spontaneous elimination and the poop eating.

She has only had him for 2 weeks, and is hoping that there would be a change if he is fed a better diet. I'm not as hopeful, given his age and the zeal with which he goes around hunting for poop.

I have had some success with Solid Gold's SEP (Stop Eating Poop) and Petco's "Gas and Stool Deodorizer", but my poop eater is only interested in his own (and hasn't for a long time). Nutritional deficiciences sound likely with this foster dog. What is he being fed?
I would also correct his indoor infractions, yes, even after the fact (which is very successful if done PROPERLY).

How do you do that properly? She is considering an electronic collar, and setting him up. Not to worry, she's married to an avid hunter, and he knows about proper use of one.

That's one approach, but calmly bringing him to a spot that's found, and telling him it's very wrong, and taking him outside immediately and praising the ground (teaching him eliminate on command can help with this a LOT), can be very effective. So many people are afrair to correct after-the-fact that the dog never gets corrected for doing it! *I* have done setups with an e-collar for poop eating, and have found it to be extremely effective.
I would probably be feeding him multiple small meals, timed throughout

the day, carefully measured.

He is eating 3/4 cups of kibble, twice a day. He needs to lose about 20 pounds, would be my guess.

I would try to make it at least 3-4 meals of the same total.
He would be taken out on leash to eliminate, every ... will sink in that OUTSIDE is the place to go.

I am not sure if she is being consistent about this. Will have to check.

I think it's a bit part of this. He will learn to give signals if coached. Before each outing, a "do you need out?" and try to elicit a response of SOME sort.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Muzzle for walkies? Again, it's a management approach, but at this point, that's the direction I'd take until I could make some progress with rewiring his brain.

I had a visiting JRT/lab mix who was a confirmed poop eater. He managed to eat frozen solid poop with the tips of his teeth, while wearing a nylon sleeve muzzle. Since he was only here for ~ a week, I wasn't going to reach non-poop-eating, but geezz louise!

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
I had a visiting JRT/lab mix who was a confirmed poop eater. He managed to eat frozen solid poop with ... sleeve muzzle. Since he was only here for ~ a week, I wasn't going to reach non-poop-eating, but geezz louise!

Oh my. That was one determined doggie!

Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
What about tethering?

I'm going to suggest that. He is in such bad shape (WRT muscle tone) that he barely moves anyway, although he's made remarkable progress in a short period of time..
It seems to me that hyper-vigilance (in addition to the hourly potty schedule Janet proposed) is called for, or there's not going to be much hope of ever fixing the problem.

Pretty much.
Wow!

She called me to tell me about it, and it was plenty disgusting, although I didn't even witness it.
How about diapers for car rides? It's not a solution, but that's one instance where there's no way of dealing with the issue when it occurs.

It hasn't recurred, thankfully. Maybe he can wear diapers inside the house, when no one is able to watch him.
Muzzle for walkies? Again, it's a management approach, but at this point, that's the direction I'd take until I could make some progress with rewiring his brain.

This, I've mentioned to her already. Sally brought up something about a muzzle with poop guard elsewhere, and I'm passing that information along, just in case.
He may be feeling hungry. Are they supplementing his kibble with low cal extras, like green beans and pumpkin?

Considering that he did this before he came to her and his rations were cut, I doubt he's doing it because he's hungry. I will also suggest adding bulk to the diet, and maybe feeding him before coming to the dog park to see if it makes any difference.
In addition to that, I'd cut the meals into 1/2 cup rations 3x/day.

She's got 5 dogs in the house, and I'm not sure if she's going to be willing to do this (she's got strange notions about fairness). Considering the alternative, this might not be a bad thing to try.

Suja
Where has she confined him?

She tried gating him to a part of her house. Her house is tiny.
Where is he when she's getting ready for work? has he been showing other stress signals?

Her house is all one level, so he's around (usually lying down on a bed) when they're getting ready for work. He is a remarkably well adjusted dog, and near as I can tell, does not throw any stress signals.
I believe that, but has he done so in an actual crate?

No. I definitely have a crate large enough for him that I could lend her. I'm not quite sure where she'll put it so that it doesn't obstruct traffic.
Nutritional deficiciences sound likely with this foster dog. What is he being fed?

Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato (I think). She has to be careful about the foods she has around the house, because one of her dogs has severe allergies to practically every food under the sun, and is extremely food motivated.
That's one approach, but calmly bringing him to a spot that's found, and telling him it's very wrong, and taking ... be very effective. So many people are afrair to correct after-the-fact that the dog never gets corrected for doing it!

Never done it myself, and I will tell her.
*I* have done setups with an e-collar for poop eating, and have found it to be extremely effective.

That's what I was thinking. That a strong correction might be appropriate.
I would try to make it at least 3-4 meals of the same total.

I'm going to ask her if she can break it up so he eats an extra meal meal before dog park.
I think it's a bit part of this. He will learn to give signals if coached. Before each outing, a "do you need out?" and try to elicit a response of SOME sort.

Will do.
Part of this is that she is feeling overwhelmed. She was not planning on taking on any fosters until they had their dog situation under control, but took this guy in on the day he was going to be PTS after hearing his story. What she would've liked is an easy foster, and not a poop eater who is pretty much unadoptable right now.
Suja
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