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(Email Removed) does a bit of final protesting before jumping off the bridge and posts
Sounds a bit like desperation >flaming borne of a losing >argument...

Actually, you already did that. Apparently you are under the misguided impression that adding another ID to your reply will do something. Stop being so pathetic and act like someone who has a clue.
Iso
posts
...CATS THAT ARE DECLAWED >EXIBIT MEDICAL AND >BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS...

1) No matter how many times you (and anyone else) posts a particular thought(or your idea of the only ideology that's is right, true, and correct, be dammed), doesn't make it so.

2) Since you are so intent on repeating the above - like a mantra..a chant..aright of passage, please do provide legitimate statistics backing up your utterances.

3) Cats that are declawed don't necessarily exhibit any behavior problems atall. Some do, some don't. The same goes for cats who are going from home to home. The same goes for cats who are left in the care of others while primary caretaker goes away for a given amount of time. The same goes for cats who are not handled correctly (for example, my neighbor has two cats. She's a forceful kind of person who scoops up the cats, pets the cats by applying pressure to the cat's head and torso while moving her hand back and forth. I've notice that her cats scurry away from her as she's trying to scoop them up.) And so on.
Actually, you already did that. Apparently you are under the misguided impression that adding another ID to your reply will do something. Stop being so pathetic and act like someone who has a clue.

If you're referring to changing ID's for posting under a different name, that's your trick pony, not mine. I don't claim to be a usenet expert, but I don't have a clue what you're babbbling about.
Sherry
PawsForThought,

I quote you, "Really? Perhaps you should have the ends ... possibly, you might be able to better understand the procedure."

At no point in time did I EVER ADVOCATE DECLAWING. I AM FINISHING THE LAST PORTION OF MY RESIDENCY. I ... a regular basis. Furthermore, I suggest you sit through an autopsy, and deal with HUMAN trauma, then compare the two.

In fact, I have done all three. I have assisted in declawing surgeries, attended to declawed patients after surgery, assisted in exploratory surgery on animals, assisted in necropsy of animals (including hit by cars - the worst), witnessed autopsy on humans, assisted during a a blunt-force-trauma death and severe injury at the scenes (car accidents) - including an impaling and decapitation (that image never leaves your mind), and dissected a human.

IME, declawing is one of the most heinous acts I have ever seen done to an animal, human or non-human. The recovery period directly after surgery can be horrible if the cat isn't medicated properly. Furthermore, there can be an excessive amount of blood loss if the bindings are removed prematurely or the closures fail. Declawing IS amputation. My brother is an amputee (leg), and had horrible complications from his amputation. I know how amputation negatively affects humans, and knowing so, I cannot imagine a human inflicting amputation on another living being unless it was to save its life. So can your "comparative" mumbo jumbo. It's just ***.

-L.
Why take a chance with a beloved pet that he will be one of those that has a problem? Isn't his health and well-being more important?

"Among 218 cats relinquished to a shelter, more (52.4%) declawed cats than non-declawed cats (29.1%) were reported by owners to have inappropriate elimination problems."
Source: World Small Animal Veterinary Association - 2001

The incidence of behavior problems following onychectomy in cats; two months to five years (median 11.5 months) after surgery:
"(33%) developed at least one behavior problem.
"(17.9%) had an increase in biting habits or intensity." "(15.4%) would not use the litter box"
Source: World Small Animal Veterinary Association - 2001

"Cats use their claws as a means of communication, much like we use our voices. A declawed cat is much like a person without a larynx. What a lot of people don't realize is that kittens go through a rambunctious stage where they are trying out their claws so will often go for furniture and drapes. What some people don't realize is that just like children going through the terrible two's, kittens will also outgrow this behavior and can be trained to a scratching post. But often they will have the kitten declawed to try to pre-empt any scratching behaviors.
"Comparing declawing to us having the ends of our fingers amputated is not actually completely accurate. The claw is harder to remove than the tip of our fingers because we don't retract our fingertips. Our fingertip is not set into the joint below in a complex way like a cat's claw is. Cutting out pieces of an animal's body for convenience is just wrong from all aspects.

Declawing is inhumane and painful to these animals. Animals are live sentient beings, not objects. A couch does not feel pain and will not notice the damage done to it. A cat surely will."Cats have retractable nails, also known as "claws". Unlike most mammals who walk on the soles of the paws or feet, cats are digitigrade, which means they walk on their toes. Their back, shoulder and leg joints, muscles, tendons, ligaments and nerves are naturally designed to support and distribute the cat's weight across its toes as it walks, runs and climbs. A cat's claws are used for balance, for exercising, and for stretching the muscles in their legs, back, shoulders, and paws.

They stretch these muscles by digging their claws into a surface and pulling back against their own clawhold - similar to isometric exercising for humans. This is the only way a cat can exercise, stretch and tone the muscles of its back and shoulders. The toes cause the foot to meet the ground at a precise angle to keep the leg, shoulder and back muscles and joints in proper alignment. Removal of the last digits of the toes causes the foot to meet the ground at an unnatural angle that can cause back pain similar to that in humans caused by wearing improper shoes.

"
"Contrary to most people's idea of declawing, surgery involves severing not just the claws, but whole phalanges (up to the joint), including bone, ligaments, and tendons! Complications of this amputation can be excruciating pain, damage to the radial nerve, hemorrhage, bone chips that prevent healing, painful regrowth of deformed claw inside of the paw, and chronic back and joint pain as shoulder, leg and back muscles weaken. Many cats also suffer a loss of balance since they can no longer achieve a secure foothold on their stumps. ""Some cats are so shocked by declawing that their personalities change. In some cases, when declawed cats use the litterbox after surgery, their feet are so tender they associate their new pain with the box...permanently. Others that can no longer mark with their claws, they mark with urine instead. Many declawed cats become so traumatized by this painful mutilation that they end up spending their maladjusted lives perched on top of doors and refrigerators, out of reach of real and imaginary predators against whom they no longer have any adequate defense.

A cat relies on its claws as its primary means of defense. Removing the claws makes a cat feel defenseless and it can either become very defensive and resort to biting, or withdrawn and paranoid. They not only lose their grip, but also their grip on reality, seeming unable to concentrate on much beyond the loss of their claws, their vulnerability and confusion as to what has happened to them. "
Yes, there are many things that can be done. First off, always play with the cat with toys, not your fingers. You can get your cat a tall sturdy scratching post with sisal rope. I also have cardboard scratching pads too as some cats are horizontal scratchers. You can clip the claws blunt. I use a cat scissors made by Four Paws and it works very well. I find the best time to trim claws is when the cat is sleepy, that way he is less likely to protest.

The first time you trim the claws, you may want to have your vet or vet tech show you how. To trim a cat's claws, place her or him on a table or on your lap, and facing away from you. Lift one of the legs so that the lower part of the leg rests in your upturned fingers. Holding the leg securely but non-threateningly between the heel of your thumb and the tips of your middle, ring, and little fingers, grasp the paw between your thumb and forefinger.

Press down gently on top of the paw with your thumb, spreading the toes and extending the claws. Check each claw individually. Do not trim blunt or rounded claws. If the nail is honed to a talon-like point, clip it. Be careful to clip the hooked part of the claw only. Avoid cutting into the pink tissue visible inside the nail.
Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of Behavioral Pharmacology and Director of the Behavior Clinic at Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine and internationally known specialist in domestic animal behavioral research, explains declawing:"The inhumanity of the procedure is clearly demonstrated by the nature of cats' recovery from anesthesia following the surgery. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in cats bouncing off the walls of the recovery cage because of excruciating pain. Cats that are more stoic huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, presumably by overwhelming pain.

Declawing fits the dictionary definition of mutilation to a tee. Words such as deform, disfigure, disjoint, and dismember all apply to this surgery. Partial digital amputation is so horrible that it has been employed for torture of prisoners of war, and in veterinary medicine, the clinical procedure serves as model of severe pain for testing the efficacy of analgesic drugs. Even though analgesic drugs can be used postoperatively, they rarely are, and their effects are incomplete and transient anyway, so sooner or later the pain will emerge."
"Declawing, or onychectomy, is an amputation of the toe at the last joint. This removes the claw and the bone from which it originates. On a human hand this would be an amputation at the knuckle just above the nail. It is not just removal of the claw as many people think." Matthew J. Ehrenberg, DVM

"It is serious surgery. Your cat's claw is not a toenail. It is actually closely adhered to the bone. So closely adhered that to remove the claw, the last bone of your the cat's claw has to be removed. Declawing is actually an amputation of the last joint of your cat's "toes". When you envision that, it becomes clear why declawing is not a humane act. It is a painful surgery, with a painful recovery period." Dr. Christianne Schelling, DVM

"The amputation of the nail is accomplished with a guillotine nail cutter, which cuts across the first joint of the toe" Dr. Paul Rowan, DVM

"Declawing (onchyectomy) is a surgical procedure that amputates the 3rd phalanx bone and claw of all ten front foot toes of a cat. This is comparable to the amputation of the last bone of each finger in the human hand." Dr. Jennifer Kissinger, DVM
"The feline digit, just like the human digit Emotion: finger, possesses three phalanxes. When a cat is declawed it is the third or last phalanx, that is completely removed or amputated." Murphy Animal Hospital, Tampa, Florida

"Declawing, or onychectomy, is the amputation of the claw and last bone (third phalanx) of the cat's toes at the first joint on the front feet. It's the
equivalent of removing the last bone of all your fingers." Dr. Alice Crook, Head, Animal Welfare Unit at Atlantic Veterinary College, University of Prince Edward
Island.
"Declawing is the surgical amputation under general anesthesia of the last part of the toe - comparable to the removal of your fingertip at the first joint." Veterinary Information Network, Inc
"The most common surgical procedure, onychectomy, or "declawing", is amputation of the claw and the end toe bone joint." The Cat Fanciers' Association
"Declawing a cat involves general anesthesia and amputation of the last joint of each toe, including the bones, not just the nail." Doctors Who's Who, Inc.
J Am Vet Med Assoc 1998 Aug 1;213(3):370-3412 Comparison of effects of elective tenectomy or onychectomy in cats. Jankowski AJ, Brown DC, Duval J, Gregor TP, Strine LE, Ksiazek LM, Ott AH Department of Clinical Studies, Veterinary Teaching Hospital, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia 19104, USA.
CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: Owners should be aware of the high complication rate for both procedures. Vet Surg 1994 Jul-Aug;23(4):274-80 Feline onychectomy at a teaching institution: a retrospective study of 163 cases. Tobias KS Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, Washington State University College of Veterinary Medicine, Pullman 99164-6610.One hundred sixty-three cats underwent onychectomy from January 1985 to November 1992. Onychectomy was performed with guillotine-type nail shears (62%), surgical blade (24.5%), or both (8.6%), and wound closure consisted of bandages alone (61.3%), bandages after suture closure (26.4%), or tissue adhesive application (9.2%). The duration of surgery was significantly longer when onychectomy was performed with a blade or when suture closure was used instead of bandages alone (P < .05).

Fifty percent of the cats had one or more complications immediately after surgery. Early postoperative complications included pain (38.1%), hemorrhage (31.9%), lameness (26.9%), swelling (6.3%), or non-weight-bearing (5.6%), and were observed more frequently after blade onychectomy (P < .001). Follow-up was available in 121 cats; 19.8% developed complications after release. Late postoperative complications included infection (11.6%), regrowth (7.4%), P2 protrusion (1.7%), palmagrade stance (1.7%), and prolonged, intermittent lameness (0.8%).

Late postoperative complications were observed more frequently after shears onychectomy (P = .018). Use of tissue adhesive was associated with more postoperative lameness (P < .02) and, when used after shears onychectomy, with more infections (P = .049).
Lauren

See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
(Email Removed) posts
Why take a chance with a beloved >pet that he will be one of those that >has aproblem? Isn't his health >and well-being more important?

I live in the real world. Apparently, you don't. I suggest that you go door-to-door in a representative sample of a couple of geographical areas and set up a research model. Some cat caretakers do love their cats and have different thought processes than you have. Did you know people have different ideas from one another?I've posted 4-5-6-7-or more times that I don't advocate declawing as a routine practice..I do advocate it as a last chance process, preferring it over having the caretaker return the pet. Ideally, everyone would have a cat, never declaw and live in Shangri-La..Realistically, cats who have been declawed (or would've been returned to the shelter) are just fine. I've seen declaw surgeries and would love to outlaw the practice - make it illegal. Maybe, someday it will be illegal...Then we could see if there is an increased number of cats who were surrendered.

Bottom line.1) If given a choice, I'd prefer that the cat NOT be declawed. 2) If the cat is to be declawed, it should be legally required that the owner watch a video of the surgery and be presented with the statistics. Counselling should also include a full range of other solutions. 3) It is my belief that the majority of cats - not all of them - a larger portion of them (than not) will come through in a satisfactory manner and live a happy life.
4) Would I lobby to make this practice illegal in the US? Yes..but as of now,it is not and my experience does lead me to the belief that cats who are declawed and retained in the home are fine/happier than the cats NOT declawed and returned to shelters, awaiting another adoption. These cats may wait many months..years or be euthenized. That is not acceptable.
Luvskats00,
You quoted me "CATS THAT ARE DECLAWED >EXIBIT MEDICAL AND >BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS..."
I should have put the adjective "some" at the beginning of my statement. I apologize, you are correct. Not every cat that is declawed exhibits medical and behavioral problems.
You are advocating declaw.

Yes, she is.
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