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I worked with a return to shelter dog today. Dutchess came in grouchy, but calmed down enough to get adopted. ... she wanted me to stay and play. She was adopted again today. I'll have peace of mind and heart tonight.

As long as you don't think about the family who just unknowingly adopted a "grouchy" dog. Or do you really believe you fixed her in one visit?
Scooter
At the shelter, dogs get to live because I do what I've suggested here today; only I never use more than a kennel leash.

What may be acceptable for a shelter dog, whose life is on the line, is not necessarily acceptable as a first choice for a family pet.
I worked with a return to shelter dog today. Dutchess came in grouchy, but calmed down enough to get adopted. ... me. By the time I left her run, she wanted me to stay and play. She was adopted again today.

Wow. I hope her new owners don't inadvertantly cause her to "want to bite."
I'll have peace of mind and heart tonight.

That, I do not doubt.

Shelly
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I'll have peace of mind and heart tonight.

As long as you don't think about the family who just unknowingly adopted a "grouchy" dog. Or do you really believe you fixed her in one visit?

1. Today's visit with Dutchess was not my first. Please, try to keep up.And, no, I rarely see one-visit fixes. Sometimes, it takes 20 visits! After all, it is the approach that dogs fear most. Dutchess demonstrated that fact today.
2. The family that adopted her was not "unknowing": they had to borrow akey to unlock her cage. A shelter employee had seen her initial reaction to me today, and decided to lock her cage. The employee did not see the dog 's playfulness, after Dutchess realized who I was.
3. For the record, I won't give that family a second thought. They werecautioned. I listened as the shelter staff revealed every shred of information they had BEFORE the family chose to borrow a key and enter the dog's cage, and decided to adopt the dog. No one twisted their arm or coaxed them into making their decision.
A sign at the entrance to the public viewing area cautions everyone to enter cages at their own risk. That implies a risk for every canine, regardless of size or age. The shelter tries to eliminate all risk, but that doesn't really happen.
I do lose sleep over some adoptions, but it is usually because of the adopter: not the dog.

Whatever it takes.
... As long as you don't think about the family ... do you really believe you fixed her in one visit?

1. Today's visit with Dutchess was not my first. Please, try to keepup.

Irrelevant that it was, or was not your first visit. Just today she "felt like biting" and just today, she went home with a family.

Unless you figure you cured something in one visit, this family just got duped by your band-aid.
And, no, I rarely see one-visit fixes. Sometimes, it takes 20 visits! After all, it is the approach that dogs fear most. Dutchessdemonstrated that fact today.

"fear most" and "grouchy" are two totally different states. Which one did you mean?
2. The family that adopted her was not "unknowing": they had to borrowa key to unlock her cage. A shelter ... and decided to lock her cage. The employee did not seethe dog 's playfulness, after Dutchess realized who I was.

That may not be relevant since she was still, according to you, ready to bite. Many dogs that bite are also delightfully playful when they feel like it. The two are not linked.
3. For the record, I won't give that family a second thought. Theywere cautioned. I listened as the shelter staff ... the dog's cage, and decided to adopt the dog. No one twisted theirarm or coaxed them into making their decision.

Ah. Good. Though you not giving them a second thought is pretty disturbing. I know I'm giving them thoughts right now, and I don't even know them OR the dog.
A sign at the entrance to the public viewing area cautions everyone to enter cages at their own risk. That ... really happen. I do lose sleep over some adoptions, but it is usually because of the adopter: not the dog.

Yeah, but then you're kind of scary anyway..what with being known to happily tell people to euthanize their dogs before its really necessary, and flourish it by telling them what a beautiful process it is and that they should do it as soon as possible.
Tara
...To the OP: For the love of God, do not* ... but that should **not* involve beating your dogs into submission!

LOL+LOL+LOL Hell's bells! "...beating your dogs into submission"! (I can't stop laughing!) Is that the impression I gave? Maybe I ... state "the goal is not to harm them, but to scare them straight." LOL Beating them into submission! Almost ROF!

Well, then, I've got two more reasons this is a Stupid Piece of Advice:
1. A dog that's already riled up and fighting may not choose to alter itsbehavior when another pack member joins in that'd be you and your newspaper. Doing stupid things goes with being human, but losing body parts on account of your own deranged idiocy would not be a pleasant learning experience.
2. A dog that's been "rescued" by its newspaper-wielding human isn't goingto just go off to a neutral corner and sulk. Puppy thinks you've waded in on his side, and he's got your back, man! Last freakin' thing I need is to encourage a dog back INTO the fight under the impression than I'm supporting him.
Out of sight stays were something he had trouble with initially, because she was in the next ring, smacking her dog.

Ugh. I've never hit a dog with a fly swatter. I've never hit Harriet, period, except when playing "puppy drums." ... talking pee everywhere while skittering away to cower in her crate. Obviously, flies do not get swatted in my house.

My dogs don't react to flies being swatted, but I still wouldn't swat my dog with one.To the OP: You don't want to hit the dog unless you want to risk even more problems. It's true that some dog pack leaders use force to make their pack members submit. But enemies to the pack also use force and injure dogs. You don't know if you will make your dog think of you as a leader or an enemy. Even if they think of you as a leader, what kind of leader are you? Trusted or whacked out nut case who does nothing about fighting one day and beats the crap out of them for fighting the next? Chances are, they won't even figure out that it's the fighting that caused your reaction since it never has before.

They'll just be confused and less trusting of you. You may stay away from the schoolyard bully or you may just wait for a chance to get even, but you're not going to like or respect him as a wise leader.

The best alpha dogs I've ever seen for getting obedience from their dog mates actually don't fight much if at all. They have a way of showing that they are in charge and belong in charge naturally without having to prove it with a smackdown.Enemies don't control but allocate resources to the pack. Pack leaders and only pack leaders do. If you want to be recognized as the leader, show the dogs that you control their access to their food, toys, the best seats in the house, etc. Have them sit before letting them eat their food or feed them one kibble at a time in training sessions. Give them toys to play with instead of just leaving them around to pick up whenever they want to play. The person who controls the resources is the leader.

The leader who is fair and predictable with those resources (the dogs know what to do to get what they want and what will happen if they don't do what the leader wants) is the respected leader who doesn't get challenged all the time. Dogs want leadership that is fair and predictable. They can't get the goodies themselves that you can with your car and opposable thumbs. If you have to resort to smacking them around to convince them that being on your team is a good thing, you've already lost the war no matter who wins any particular battle.

Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay
The best alpha dogs I've ever seen for getting obedience from their dog mates actually don't fight much if at all. They have a way of showing that they are in charge and belong in charge naturally without having to prove it with a smackdown.

Viva has never had an out-and-out fight with a dog. She's told a very few dogs to back off. For the most part she seems like a sweet rather absent-minded old lady, just toodling along, minding her own business. She's friendly with other dogs and loves puppies.
No dog has ever challenged her. She can clear a room just by walking in. Known dog-aggressive dogs won't even look at her. They just turn away. It's the most amazing thing. She's the first (and likely the last) truly dominant dog I'll ever own.
At home, Viva lets Cala whale the crap out of her, puts up with all kinds of Zipper indignities. Most people would think that Cala is the boss. Every once in awhile Viva puts her foot down and Cala becomes a self-abasing fool. No question who is boss, Viva's just so secure about it that she doesn't feel the need to swing her weight around.
Give them toys to play with instead of just leaving them around to pick up whenever they want to play.

This is a good suggestion. I remember and forget it on a regular basis. And Bella loves seeing a "new" old toy that she's forgotten about.

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