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Actually, now that I think about it, I have two kennel-raised dogs.

Solo was stuffed into a kennel as a puppy and ignored until he was almost a year and a half old. He does and always will suffer from lingering deficits because of this upbringing.
Fly most likely lived in a kennel (when she wasn't working or training) until she was imported into the States and I took her home. She is indistinguishable behaviorally from a home-raised dog. The difference is that she was worked and socialized from puppyhood and given the mental stimulation necessary to grow into a normal mature and well-rounded dog.

She was lacking in basic house manners when I got her (wasn't housebroken, didn't really "get" the furniture), but that was about it. I'm really trying hard to see signs of a kennel-raised dog when I look at Fly, but I'm just not seeing any. I do get the impression that her original owner spent a lot of time with her, however, because the word I got was that after she was sold and gone off across the water, he regretted selling her and wanted her back because he missed her.

Melanie Lee Chang > Form ever follows function. Departments of Anthropology and Biology >
University of Pennsylvania > Louis Sullivan (Email Removed) >
i think it's one of those things best left filed under "different strokes."

You got it. There isn't enough money in the world that would make me want to take on a pooping, ... owner(s) and take credit for all the good stuff myself, something you can't do with a puppy that you've raised

If I am going to get a dog with a specific goal in mind i.e., I want not just an agility dog, but I want a TOP agility dog, I'm probably going to hedge my bets by getting a puppy that I can imprint at an early age for the work I want him to do. I personally do not want to have to deal with the baggage that comes with a kennel dog or a dog who has had other problems due to poor upbringing.
If, however, I want a loving companion, and doing anything else with him is a nice bonus but not a goal, and if, further, figuring out puzzles and dealing with baggage is something that is satisfying to me, I'd definitely go rescue.In both cases, the dog is likely to be a very satisfactory companion in all respects. And in both cases I will love the dog dearly. I happen to have both types, and I'll be the first to admit that my heart dog is the one that came to me at 18 months from an abusive home, while the puppy that I held at birth is a challenge to me every day though I do love her too. But as much as I adore Viva, as much as she is a part of my soul, I still deal with her baggage from her first home, even 4 years later.

I always will. Viva is an absolutely incredible dog a once-in-a-lifetime dog. But I still mourn for what she COULD have been, had she not been emotionally and physically abused. Cala, the young dog, carries with her the weight of everything being on MY shoulders. If she fails it's my fault, not anyone else's. She will probably end up with more titles, her talent and speed are almost scary. But she's not her mother, she's her own cussed, stubborn, tough little self! And at the moment she's in her crate after screaming at me for the past half hour because she's bored...
However, she was intensively raised and trained to work with a human handler and she's so good at interacting both with people and with other dogs that she clearly either got the socialization she needed,

This sounds like a fair bet. Pfaffenberger's book "The New Knowledge of Dog Behavior" has in-depth information about a guide dog raising program he helped set up. The GSD that were raised as guide dogs got something like 30 minutes of structured training and socialization twice a week, and still managed to grow up and reach their full potential.
Jana
Hello all! as you can all see, i have been reading posts here, and sorta already know that i will ... of you has posted, so i hope someone here can give me some good examples of kennel vs. home raising.

My opinion: join a listserv for beagles, and let them know you are interested in a dog raised in a house, and the wonderful home you have to offer the dog.
I personally wouldn't purchase a dog who lived in a kennel. A well socialized pup, with tons of humans, is whats important to me. Your instincts are well founded.

BethF, Anchorage, AK
It's YOUR God.
They are YOUR rules.
YOU burn in hell.
GREAT Post Robin.
The only thing about resisting temptation is you might not get another chance

Paulette~
If I am going to get a dog with a specific goal in mind i.e., I want not just an agility ... the baggage that comes with a kennel dog or a dog who has had other problems due to poor upbringing.

And then there's Friday.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
If I am going to get a dog with a ... dog who has had other problems due to poor upbringing.

And then there's Friday.[/nq]Oh I'm not saying it can't happen, notice I wrote "hedge my bets." Also, for me, by top agility dog I mean one that can regularly break 6.5 yps on an AKC Excellent jumpers with weaves course and 4+ on a standard course including the table. For the drive I want and the level of training I need to put in to get that kind of performance, imprinting at a young age helps a lot. It also takes a long time to become a team most people I know trial for 2 years or more before they really start to become one entity with the dog.

For Viva, who didn't start her agility training till 2 and didn't compete until 3, this means she was well over 5 before I felt we were really starting to move as one entity. And since she got a late start and is a bigger dog, I don't feel I have as much time as I'd like I'm afraid she'll start to slow down here in a couple of years, before we're really finished. With Cala, I am starting to trial (just Novice Preferred Jumpers) at 18 months, and will really start trialling at 2.

That means she and I should be a real team at around age 4 for her, giving her a much longer career overall.
thanks for the welcome!
as far as maxi pad...well..little max was about 6 months old, and he wandered into the upstairs bathroom while housecleaning was being done. somehow, he got under the sink, and he found the Always pads..then proceded to very carefully tear the sticky parts off of a whole box before we found him..covered in pads. he was, of course, overjoyed we were there to see all the hard work he had put into to his little adventure, and we fell over laughing for a good 20 mintues while max danced all over, showing off his new outfit..my father never forgave us for calling him maxi pad thereafter..teehee!

of course we never left any cabinet doors open after that and we carefully counted the pads and stickers so we were sure he hadn't gobbled any down, while my dad cooed over max, and told us that if he ate any, we were the ones who had to take him to the vet, because there was no way he was going to try to exlpain how a puppy had eated a bunch of sanitary napkins!
megan
BINGO! thats just what happened when we visted the woman who home raises. she has a small pack she keeps at home, with a HUGE yard, she has other dogs that her pack gave birth to, who have gone onto other owners, who let her use them for breeding as well, which lets her keep her main pack size down quite a bit. she runs 3 males (unrelated) and
7 females (4 related, 3 not). only 1 male lives with her, and 4females (one is an elderly lady, who has been fixed, so she can just play with puppies and eat treats all the time, since she has retired), the rest are owned by others.
her dogs were quite friendly, no yappers at all, confident, had no problem meeting our eyes and tapping us for a pat, and when we went for a walk with them, when at rest, they would even lean against us, and sigh a bit when patted for being so good, even though we were prefect strangers to them.
the kennel dogs we saw, while lovely, were barking like mad, jumping all over in excitment at seeing new people, but would listen when told to sit or stay, none were housebroken. the breeders did seem to be decent ones, the kennel runs were large, with trees in them and a little kiddie pool to play in, toys scattered about, several dog houses so the dogs could get some private time if wanted, and nice and clean, but frankly, the dogs were spazy and so the pups were already conditioned to behave that way when people came near, which they were doing.
one of the things that our beagle lady said, and i have no idea if this is really true, but frankly its logical, is the reason that beagles have such a bad wrap about housetrianing, is that most are raised in a kennel, and never learn about it until they are taken out of it. while most other breeds are about half house raised, half kennel, so many more at least understand the basics of going outside, even if they haven't mastered it yet.
megan
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