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That's precisely the problem. Having good intentions does not excuse bad advice.

Nor does it equate to respect for the person or the person's advice. Respect is earned, not demanded as a matter of right.

I'm kind of curious how one goes about "not tolerating" being addressed with respect. Aside from plonking.
But then, I'm one of those un-democratic freaks who thinks bad and stupid ideas should be ridiculed, not not NOT respected, no siree.
Once a person has totally lost your respect, it's almost impossible for them to regain that lost ground. But I honestly don't think anyone here is treated unfairly right off the bat people earn the treatment they are given.

Query: How come the people who ask "Why is everyone picking on me??? I am being persecuted!!!111!!!" never stop to consider that maybe they just post really stupid stuff?
Very true, except that even most vets don't know a ... again, it'sup to the dog's owner to research the product.

I have never seen a holistic vet (although I have read about them inhere), so don't take this question as snarky, but rather seriously. When holistic vets recommend a herbal mixture, what do they basetheir recommendations on?? Marcel and Moogli

Hi Marcel ,
Richard Allport is a well known vet in the uk who writes for dog and cat magazines. There's an article here that he's written about Alternative medicines for pets.
http://www.catworld.co.uk/articlecatworld.asp?artid=809&pre=25638 Alison
without sincere

Nor does it equate to respect for the person or the person's advice. Respect is earned, not demanded as a matter of right.

I beg to differ. Respect for the feelings of other humans should be the rule, not the exception.[/nq]To me, that is a different matter. I would say that courtesy should be the rule. Respect, to me, is something different. I can respect a person's right to feel or think as they do without respecting them or their ideas. Common courtesy requires that I understand, for example, that Leah is sincere and has good intentions, but does not demand that I respect the things that she says or does in her posts. To take it further, I actually respect a lot of what Leah says because she often does know what she is talking about yet I do not respect her, as a person so to speak, because she does not differentiate what she knows from what she doesn't.

The same level of expertise is claimed no matter what she is saying or what her basis for saying it. When questioned, she does not say, "I guess you were right" until a dozen or so long drawn out posts about why she is right and everyone else is wrong. That type of discussion does not earn any respect from me. The combination results in my taking everything she says with a grain of salt while my default for some others is to respect what they say automatically and respect them as people because they are very careful to differentiate opinion from fact, data from anecdote, and knowledge from guess work and are willing to look honestly at where their beliefs come from and where they might need to go.

Paula
"Imagine! The sky BLACK with Battletractors, and an eerie silence broken only by their incessant droning, and the buzzing of bees returning home to roost." John Burrage
Query: How come the people who ask "Why is everyone picking on me??? I am being persecuted!!!111!!!" never stop to consider that maybe they just post really stupid stuff?

If someone's not savvy enough to realize what's wrong with "Why is everybody picking on me??," well, like duh.
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Bush Justice Department: 5000 anti-terror detentions,
0 anti-terror convictions
That's not quite it, Leah. It may feel that way, but that's not it. It's not the person, it is the way the post is presented that is under scrutiny.

Yes.
When I started reading rpd joined the group 11 or so years ago (and it was just rpd back then) I lurked for several months before daring to post. And when I first started to post, I got my ears boxed several times for imprecision in expressing myself, particularly when my advice was vague and could be misconstrued.
I learned. I started expressing myself more precisely, and the P+ went away. I also started getting more and more R+. It was simple behavioralism in action, and it worked very well. I certainly didn't start walking in lockstep with the cabal (oops, sorry - THERE IS NO CABAL ). But I did learn to articulate my thoughts better - and furthermore, I became a better teacher because of that.
Even now, I get tripped up now & again. Not long ago I wrote a hasty post that had a factual error in it, and Diane Blackman called me on it. Oops. Note to self: double-check your information even when dashing off a quick post. (BTW, in the course of writing that paragraph above I Googled to double-check if the + came before or after the P and the R. See? I *am* trainable.)
And no, I certainly didn't like being called on my error. But also
1) I didn't accuse Diane of picking on me 2) I didn't inform the groupat large that there were mean and nasty people around that had it in for me 3) I didn't try to justify my error by saying "well, I said I THOUGHT such-and-such, I didn't say it was actually TRUE" - and so on and so on and so on. To the contrary: I made a mistake, mea culpa. End of story.That's one example of knowing when to walk away from a discussion - one of the most useful things I've learned in this newsgroup. At the risk of being misconstrued, here's another. There are certain people on this newsgroup that I know to be argumentative (duh! ) One in particular is someone I like. However, I learned some time ago that if I responded to any of this person's posts, all I would get was an argument. She was right because of such-and-such.

She couldn't do that because of this-and-that. My experience wasn't anything like hers because of something else. And so on, and on, and on. Finally I realized that I need to simply cut my losses in talking to her. If I think I have something to contribute to a discussion she's involved with, I make one post and then move on. I've realized that if she doesn't hear me the first time, trying to say the same thing
528 other ways isn't particularly helpful to either of us.

And BTW, I wasn't referring to shelly as one of the argumentative people above. She is, in fact, very quick to spot errors in logic and sloppy thinking. But in truth, I don't consider those to be bad qualities. Actually, if I were preparing for an important public debate, she's the one I'd want to have as a coach. I for one will miss her.
Dianne
Once a person has totally lost your respect, it's almost ... right off the bat people earn the treatment they are given.

Query: How come the people who ask "Why is everyone picking on me??? I am being persecuted!!!111!!!" never stop to consider that maybe they just post really stupid stuff?

Well, DUH! The whole reason for the whole "Why is everyone picking on me!" response is to completely avoid looking at how stupid the stuff they do or say is. Don't stop and consider, no matter what!!!

Paula
"Imagine! The sky BLACK with Battletractors, and an eerie silence broken only by their incessant droning, and the buzzing of bees returning home to roost." John Burrage
Nor does it equate to respect for the person or the person's advice. Respect is earned, not demanded as a matter of right.

I'm kind of curious how one goes about "not tolerating" being addressed with respect. Aside from plonking.

She said she was going to go postal if not addressed with respect. Are you trying to say you don't care if Leah goes postal on you? No WAY!
But then, I'm one of those un-democratic freaks who thinks bad and stupid ideas should be ridiculed, not not NOT respected, no siree.

Freedom of speech says you can't jail people for saying stupid things, but are encouraged to tell everyone how stupid they are.

Paula
"Imagine! The sky BLACK with Battletractors, and an eerie silence broken only by their incessant droning, and the buzzing of bees returning home to roost." John Burrage
That's precisely the problem. Having good intentions does not excuse bad advice.

Nor does it equate to respect for the person or the person's advice. Respect is earned, not demanded as a matter of right.

Perfectly put.
Mustang Sally
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