1  3 4 5 6 7 » 36
do you know that valerian does not exacerbate or cause anxiety in dogs? unless you know that, then suggesting its use for

You either want to discuss, or be try to 'show up and pick fault'. I only offered some thoughts and am always open for discussion, but I do not see any reason for these aggressive and challenging rebounds of yours - if you want to play nicely, sure, I'd love to discuss. Otherwise, enjoy yourself in whatever petite way you need to.
Diana
do you know that valerian does not exacerbate or cause anxiety in dogs? unless you know that, then suggesting its use for

You either want to discuss, or be try to 'show up and pick fault'.

I, for one, appreciate when anyone picks up faults in potentially incorrect medical advice.
I'm not saying that your advice was bad, Diana, just that I like to see all points of view when it comes to the health of me and mine.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
You either want to discuss, or be try to 'show up and pick fault'.

I, for one, appreciate when anyone picks up faults in potentially incorrect medical advice. I'm not saying that your advice was bad, Diana, just that I like to see all points of view when it comes to the health of me and mine.

But you, Matt, are pretty much always friendly and polite.

- I don't mind being picked up for some errors in my posting, I appreciate I could have worded it a little more cautiously, but as I figured this was a discussion group about dogs, I thought I would let other dog owners and lovers know of our situation and how well it was being managed and how helpful this herbal treatment has been in keeping a dog that really would be bouncing off the walls, calm and happy.
The post was intended as I titled it, 'might be useful for some'.

Diana
- I don't mind being picked up for some errors in my posting, I appreciate I could have worded it ... bouncing off the walls, calm and happy. The post was intended as I titled it, 'might be useful for some'.

Your post was fine. That's the character of rpdb. If you post anything thought-provoking, you're going to get attacked by a looney from the front and a few piranhas from the back.
I don't think there's an idea on earth a person can discuss that doesn't include exceptions, worst case scenarios, and caveats, or can't be taken out of context and twisted beyond recognition, or colored as darkly as possible. There just happen to be some regular posters here who can be counted on to see only these aspects, and to be insulting and/or condescending in expressing their opinions about them.
I am very interested in the possibilities of using herbs on dogs. I haven't been in the field for at least 10 years, so I don't know if much has changed... but there was little to no actual research being done on the therapeutic value of herbs for humans back then. What exhaustive research existed was being done by the only medicine providers with enough money - drug companies - and specifically to find contraindications and dangers. So unless things have changed quite a bit, I'm not hopeful there has been a lot of research (if any) done on the therapeutic value of using herbs on dogs.

That means that if you want to use herbs for medicinal purposes, on humans or dogs, you don't have a lot of science behind you. You have to make a lot of decisions based on anecdotes. For example, if I know four people who have taken valerian root to help them sleep, three tell me it worked, and none report any side effects, then I would feel comfortable about trying it for myself.
To put things in perspective, all drugs have contraindications and side effects. Some of them are pretty horrendous. You never know if you're going to be one of the people affected adversely by the pharmaceutical that's prescribed to you. I had to discontinue actonel, because it kicked up my gerd something fierce.
Back about 10 years ago, I read about a study (nope, don't remember a thing about the source) that compared the deaths from aspirin to the deaths from herb use. Aspirin won out over all herbs put together, and then some.

In other words, there's danger everywhere. :}
I also appreciate it if somebody points out something I missed, or an error, or even just something they perceive as an error. I believe that's what discussion is all about, sharing and gaining knowledge. What pisses me off is when feedback is purposely done in a way that puts the OP on the defensive, or demeans him/her.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
You either want to discuss, or be try to 'show up and pick fault'. I only offered some thoughts and ... for these aggressive and challenging rebounds of yours - if you want to play nicely, sure, I'd love to discuss.

so how, exactly, would you like me to reword my concerns so that they meet with your approval?
Otherwise, enjoy yourself in whatever petite way you need to.

why, yes, i do enjoy being petite!

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
I'm not saying that your advice was bad, Diana, just that I like to see all points of view when it comes to the health of me and mine.

nor was i, beyond my disbelief that valerian has no toxicity point and no side effects. since Diane is the one offering the advice, though, i would expect her to be able to answer my questions about valerian's effect on anxiety not an unreasonable question under the circumstances. if it exacerbates it, then i would think it would be contraindicated for treatment of SA.

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
Note subject change
To put things in perspective, all drugs have contraindications and side effects. Some of them are pretty horrendous. You never ... herb use. Aspirin won out over all herbs put together, and then some. In other words, there's danger everywhere. :}

Ummm. Just a point about this. While this is true, the two cases cannot realy be compared, for a number of reasons.
First is that Aspirin is a drug, controlled and regulated by the FDA (or your local beaurocracy of choice) and thus any deaths that may be caused by it are required to be mentioned. In that same vein, many people do not consider herbal/natural remedies as drugs, and thus don't mention it to the Dr when asked, "Is s/he taking anything??"
Second, the metabolites of aspirin are well known, as are the side effects. When someone dies due to aspirin, it is pretty easy to track down that it was because of the aspirin, in that there are a significant number of tests that can be done to track the various breakdown products in the body. Many of the herbal products that people take have not been studied scientifically. Their metabolic breakdown is not known, their starting concentration is not known. Thus, determining the cause of death is very tricky. The doctors don't know what to look for and don't know how to test it.
Third, and this is, IMO, the biggy, the population differences in the two make any comparisons irrelevant. If you compare the number of people who take aspirin for something with the number of people who take herbs, the number of people who take aspirin will be so much greater that you can't really compare the two.
Note that I am not saying that drugs are better than herbs and the like. In the end, it is all drugs. Saying that because it comes from a "natural" source really means nothing in the end.

Marcel and Moogli
In other words, there's danger everywhere. :}

is that meant to justify giving out advice about a drug whose side effects, toxicity level, and mode of action one either doesn't understand or one doesn't choose to explain?
Ummm. Just a point about this. While this is true, the two cases cannot realy be compared, for a number of reasons.

most importantly because one is a banana and one is a kumquat. but that's a side-traction from the original point. it would be reckless to claim that aspirin is non-toxic and has no side effects. if you made such claims, don't you think people might question your advice to use it for, say, treating ulcers? what about if you recommended its use in an entirely different species?
FWIW, i did a quick scan of PubMed and could find no studies of valerian use in canines. a Google search turned up nothing much beyond the websites of herbal vendors, whose claims should be taken with a grain of salt. maybe valerian is perfectly safe to give to dogs, but hopefully Diane will appreciate that it would be irresponsible for anyone to take her word for it. in fact, since she is the one who gave out the advice, she ought to be prepared to answer questions about it. she can think i'm mean, impolite, nit-picking, fault-finding, aggressive, challenging, petty, etc. all she wants, but i don't think i'm being ***** unreasonable.

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
You either want to discuss, or be try to 'show up and pick fault'.

I, for one, appreciate when anyone picks up faults in potentially incorrect medical advice.

There is nothing wrong with picking fault. It is the way it is addressed in doing so, IMO.
I'm not saying that your advice was bad, Diana, just that I like to see all points of view when it comes to the health of me and mine.

The advice was "might" be. Mights are small they aren't huge IMO. And Valerian has helped me but I am not a dog. I do agree that there is nothing wrong with saying, but herbs aren't necessarily safer. One they aren't regulated, which often people overlook because they are herbs. It still doesn't mean they are bad either but there is different
qualities which really is yet another
thing about them not being regulated.
One should always consult with their own
Vet in regards to giving anything to their dogs.
Gwen
Show more