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The advice was "might" be. Mights are small they aren't huge IMO. And Valerian has helped me but I am not a dog.

I don't mean to pick nit either, but mights can be pretty huge if you or your dog happens to ... and a 2% chance of developing an adverse reaction will seem like 100% if you're the one with the reaction.

Well what I meant was I didn't feel Diana was saying it would help. I don't think her intentions were for this person to just adminster medication to her dog. But your points are very valid and no nit picking felt. I appreciate this sort of input. It is very true. I know all too well about how certain medicines can react differently. I definitely have different reactions then most on many medications.
I do agree that there is nothing wrong with saying, ... really is yet another thing about them not being regulated.

Herbs certainly can have side effects and potentially dangerous adverse effects. Sometimes people tend to think that because they're 'natural', ... I do think that when someone recommends a product, that person needs to be prepared to answer questions about it.

I agree 100% with all of the above. You are quite correct. Which I have stated in few times including this post more or less.

I do appreciate the input.
Gwen
Therefore, it's up to the user to do the research into the possible side effects, toxicities, etc. involved.

yep. but when the user/recommender has said she's "searched and searched" and found no information that the substance is "unsafe," don't be incredulous. apparently, that's bad form.
I do think that when someone recommends a product, that person needs to be prepared to answer questions about it.

unless the person doing the asking is me. HTH!

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
Very true, except that even most vets don't know a ... to the dog's owner to research the product. Mustang Sally

I missed this part of your post. I agree most Vets don't know but there are holistic Vets available in many cities today. There is one or two here in Austin that many people adore and swear by.
I would not give my dog something my Vet did not approve of. If she can't tell me she feels it is safe at "x" dose I wouldn't give it to one of my animals. If it is up to me doing research then I just wouldn't personally feel comfortable with adminstering it to my dog. Again what dosage? What potency? What brand? What do you look for? So many viarables.
Gwen
Very true, except that even most vets don't know a whole lot about herbs, unless they're holistic vets. In which case, again, it's up to the dog's owner to research the product.

I have never seen a holistic vet (although I have read about them in here), so don't take this question as snarky, but rather seriously.

When holistic vets recommend a herbal mixture, what do they base their recommendations on??

Marcel and Moogli
When holistic vets recommend a herbal mixture, what do they base their recommendations on??

Marcel there is one or two in Austin. I might just give the one a call and ask this very question and post it. I am not sure if calling the office will obtain an answer but it might obtain some basic something.
Gwen
Third, and this is, IMO, the biggy, the population differences in the two make any comparisons irrelevant. If you compare ... herbs, the number of people who take aspirin will be so much greater that you can't really compare the two.

Yes, this is an important factor. I'd be interested to know the results of a similar study done in the 2000s. People take a lot more herbal remedies on a regular basis now than they did 10 years ago.
In any case, my point was that you're taking a risk by taking any drug, not just herbs. With pharmaceuticals, the risks are better known, but they're still there.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
Third, and this is, IMO, the biggy, the population differences ... so much greater that you can't really compare the two.

Yes, this is an important factor. I'd be interested to know the results of a similar study done in the 2000s. People take a lot more herbal remedies on a regular basis now than they did 10 years ago.

But to make it honest, you would only be able to start testing it once you have herbal remedies whose source and make-up is as controlled, regulated and tested as are pharmaceuticals. This includes all of the appropriate quality control, quality assurance and other steps that are involved in the creation/marketing of pharmaceuticals.
In any case, my point was that you're taking a risk by taking any drug, not just herbs. With pharmaceuticals, the risks are better known, but they're still there.

No disagreement with you there.

Marcel and Moogli
is that meant to justify giving out advice about a drug whose side effects, toxicity level, and mode of action one either doesn't understand or one doesn't choose to explain?

It is perfectly justifiable for a person to post ideas to a discussion group without being an expert in the subject matter. If it wasn't, this would be an announcement board or an ezine, not a discussion group.

It is not so justifiable to demean that person by inferring that they are stupid (doesn't understand) or irresponsible (doesn't choose to explain) for not knowing everything there is to know about the subject.

Diana contributed a "this worked for my dog" type of post to a discussion group. She did not get on a soap box and try to convert anybody, or imply in any way that she was an expert in the use of the herb. She did not deserve your snarkiness.
in fact, since she is the one who gave out the advice, she ought to be prepared to answer questions about it.

This is ludicrous. Again, this forum is not designed for lectures from experts. It's a discussion group.
she can think i'm mean, impolite, nit-picking, fault-finding, aggressive, challenging, petty, etc. all she wants, but i don't think i'm being ***** unreasonable.

Apparently.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/myhomepage/index.html
in thread (Email Removed) (Leah) whittled the following words:

YAY!! You said it all. THANK YOU LEAH! Of course shelly NEVER thinks she's unreasonable or rude.

Diana has always been polite and helpful. I can imagine how she was crushed when Marcel, a person of charm, sensistivity and reason supported shelly's vicious attack.
I was angered by that.I'm sure shelly needs a shrink, and support, but to support THAT kind of behavior shocked me.
Diana's comments were well intentioned. And perhaps REALLY helpful. shelly's were simply her daily dose of venom to put down people in order to elevate herself. .
I'm SO glad you said that. I was afraid that the attack on Diana would go undefended. i KNOW this 'should' be a personal letter instead of newsgroups. but you have said yourself that you do not appreciate unsolicited email contacts.
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