I'm curious if they've managed to nail these breeds down and get breed clubs started. I read an article in PopSci about a concerted effort to establish toy breeds of Labs and Dals but haven't heard much of it since.
I'm curious if they've managed to nail these breeds down and get breed clubs started. I read an article in PopSci about a concerted effort to establish toy breeds of Labs and Dals but haven't heard much of it since.

Geeze Dalmatians have enough health problems without being bred down. A Labs are dying by the thousands in shelters. We certainly don't need more, not even smaller ones.
I'm curious if they've managed to nail these breeds down and get breed clubs started. I read an article in PopSci about a concerted effort to establish toy breeds of Labs and Dals but haven't heard much of it since.

No, nor should there be.
Responsible breeders do occasionally get "midgets" in their litters, but it's not very common. Labs have a height disqualification for a reason.

Emily Carroll
Fluttervale Labradors: www.fluttervale.com
CPG: www.geocities.com/cyberpetgame/
4-H Club: www.geocities.com/woofsandwiggles/
Responsible breeders do occasionally get "midgets" in their litters, but it's not very common.

Emily, I'm curious- when you say "midgets", do you mean dogs that are unusually small, but with normal proportions, or do you mean dogs that have disproportionately short legs?
I ask because I've seen several of the latter over the last 10 years or so- IOW dogs that looked (and acted) exactly like Labs aside from having shortish legs. Given that we have a ginormous population of BYB Labs in the Baltimore area, it wouldn't surprise me if a few of the "breeders" were producing pups with some form of achondroplasia.
Responsible breeders do occasionally get "midgets" in their litters, but it's not very common.

Emily, I'm curious- when you say "midgets", do you mean dogs that are unusually small, but with normal proportions, or ... Baltimore area, it wouldn't surprise me if a few of the "breeders" were producing pups with some form of achondroplasia.

The "mini" Boxer is produced by breeding the dwarf gene (although I doubt some byb even know its referred to as such, they call them all runts). They are small proportionally rather than just having small legs. They look exactly like a Boxer, act exactly like a Boxer, but are several inches too short.

Tara
Responsible breeders do occasionally get "midgets" in their litters, but it's not very common.

Emily, I'm curious- when you say "midgets", do you mean dogs that are unusually small, but with normal proportions, or do you mean dogs thathave disproportionately short legs?

I know of a few breeders that have dogs that are just undersized proportionally there (even finishable, if there wasn't the height DQ). One is like 4 inches under the DQ.

Emily Carroll
Fluttervale Labradors: www.fluttervale.com
CPG: www.geocities.com/cyberpetgame/
4-H Club: www.geocities.com/woofsandwiggles/
I'm curious if they've managed to nail these breeds down ... Labs and Dals but haven't heard much of it since.

No, nor should there be. Responsible breeders do occasionally get "midgets" in their litters, but it's not very common. Labs ... is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ). Version: 6.0.581 / Virus Database: 368 - Release Date: 2/9/2004

The only way responsible breeders come into the equation, at least in my mind, is that responsible breeders are the only people that can be trusted to create a new breed. As far a disqualifications, that doesn't matter to me too much, because I don't get dogs for show. Besides, mini labs would be an entire new breed, with new disquals (although I would like to see new breeds kept out of the ring, it only causes more genetic problems with inbreeding.)
Anyway, I did some hunting around and I've seen pics of both mini dals and labs, the only way they don't conform is by their size. They aren't regular labs and dals anyway, so that doesn't matter.
The only way responsible breeders come into the equation, at least in my mind, is that responsible breeders are the only people that can be trusted to create a new breed.

But really, for the most part, you won't find this occurring. People who have been involved long-term in dogs and are willing to put in the dedication necessary to actually develop a new breed are very, very few and far between. And frankly, most folks in the dog fancy realize there simply is no need to develop new breeds. Few dogs are used for actual work these days, and the existing breeds fill those roles just fine. As for companions, there are so many existing breeds that were created solely as pets, as well as the majority of the rest of the breed actually living as pets, that it seems very unlikely that a new breed would ever fill a role that could not easily be filled by existing breeds.
As far a disqualifications, that
doesn't matter to me too much, because I don't get dogs for show. Besides, mini labs would be an entire ... I would like to see new breeds kept out of the ring, it only causes more genetic problems with inbreeding.)

You do realize, though, that in order to develop a miniature line of labs, you would be dealing with an incredibly tiny gene pool in comparison to the "normal" lab gene pool? Thus, you would be doing far more inbreeding to develop and then continue the mini lab line than the conformation breeders. Whether shown in a ring or working or whatever, breeding programs that intelligently use inbreeding/linebreeding are generally far more successful in meeting their goals than people who do nothing but outcross.
Anyway, I did some hunting around and I've seen pics of both mini dals and labs, the only way they don't conform is by their size. They aren't regular labs and dals anyway, so that doesn't matter.

You can't tell by pictures if a dog conforms to a standard. You can get an idea that they appear that they might be properly structured, but you can't feel them or see them move. You also can't judge temperament or health from a picture, or working ability for that matter. So just because you see a photo of a small dog that appears lab-like or dal-like, you can't say the only way they don't conform is size.
At any rate, I've seen pictures of the so-called mini Dals, and they are very different looking to me from a Dal, appearing to have something like Italian Greyhound bred into them to give them very fine bone and very un-Dal like heads. I'm sure the folks who know Dals can go into better detail as to where they differ.
All these folks are doing is trying to appeal to an uneducated market. There is no role for a mini-Lab or mini-Dal that an existing breed cannot fill; there are dozens of lovely smaller breeds for someone wanting a nice companion pet, and innumerable homeless pure and mixed breeds as well.

Christy