I've been spending more time on rec.food.cooking than here. Like every usenet group, they get off topic. Most recently, they've started talking about how all pitbulls are vicious and untrustable and how much they like the idea of laws banning them altogether. They got on this subject when someone's neighbors' dog did a topnotch job of cleaning a rotisserie spit when it was left out after an outdoor campfire. I don't want to get into arguing this subject over there, but I don't feel like I can stay out of it either. Could someone direct me to a good, succinct online source that sums up clearly why breed bans are a bad idea, a source that might be read an understood by non-dog people? I'd like to direct them to the page, then bow out.
Lia
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Julia Altshuler (Email Removed) spoke these words of wisdom in
I've been spending more time on rec.food.cooking than here. Likeevery usenet group, they get off topic. Most recently, they've started ... that might be read an understood by non-dog people?I'd like to direct them to the page, then bow out. Lia

the reason people protest breeds bans is because they fear the "topple theory" with each successive popular aggressive breed being banned until there are no more (which is PETA's agenda)
The problem with that is, as long as all breeds close ranks behind the pitbull, people still feeling the need to protect themselves against the horror stories as another mangled child and pit bull get flashed across their evening tv screen at supper time. So instead, they demand broad sweeping very bad laws against ALL dogs/owners/breeders.

The problem with pitbulls is there are many badly bred ones out there. With many bad owners, and when they do damage, they do it with catastrophic MAGNITUDE.
Sure, Your cocker spaniel is more likely to bite than the pitbull, but the damage is less likely to be as severe.
It's the MAGNITUDE that i have issues with, and having the fallout of the pitbull backlash being imposed on all the rest of the breeds that aren't even the problem.
I'm in favor of cutting losses and quit protecting MAGNITUDE
I'm in favor of cutting losses and quit protecting MAGNITUDE

Diddy, would you please be kind enough to translate that into English for me?

Handsome Jack Morrison
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide is a small price to pay to bring U.S. troops home."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWNlZmY1NzBhMDk4NTU3ZGJhYTZjMDdjZGJiMjFjZmQ =

"Shooting Michael Moore," a new documentary. Yo! Judith! Payback's a ***, eh? http://www.shootingmichaelmoore.com/about/index.htm
Unless I'm mistaken, those opposed to BSL are also opposed to all other forms of bad legislation governing dog ownership as well. I know I am. The key is there is a correct way to solve the problems with dog related injuries, and there is an incorrect way. BSL is a wrong way, just as "Broad sweeping very bad laws against ALL dogs/ owners/breeders" are the wrong way.
Nick
"(Email Removed)"
Unless I'm mistaken, those opposed to BSL are also opposed to all other forms of bad legislation governing dog ownership ... is a wrong way, just as "Broad sweeping very bad laws against ALL dogs/ owners/breeders" are the wrong way. Nick

I agree, but Pit bull owners try to enlist ALL dog owners to protect their breed riddled with misdeeds by their owners and breeders. In doing so, they offer no way to reason and police the guilty and problem makers, they simply appeal in many ways trying to save their breed, yet offer NO way to protect the public from the evil doers.

since they have successfully pooled the cavalry, but still have not solved the reason why people are still upset, the people upset understand racial discrimination is not a cool thing. So they enact laws against dogs in general because NO ONE has come up with a way to stop pitbull maulings of people and other dogs.
If Pit Bull people would do something more proactive to stop these things, it would be easier to support anti-pit bull measures.

By supporting pit bulls, we are selling out our own breeds. But what people are doing is saying the Pit bull is REALLY nice. DON'T touch them, while the evening news nightly provides a preponderous evidence that the problem still continues.
If we defend the pitbull, we lose ground on the slippery slope of credibility.
Put Bull people need to police their own breed, get pitbulls that are dangerous off the streets, out of the hands of people who are causing the problems and help the police shut down dog fighting rings. Only then, once the pitbull people have accomplished this (after all, they want no laws against pitbulls-so they need to do this themselves) can the public feel safe.
I think protecting pitbulls endangers every other breed.

I am not opposed to banning Mossoler breeds simply because of the magnitude of damage they are capable of and the types of people attracted to them and I don't see any progress being done to stop any of it.
Unless I'm mistaken, those opposed to BSL are also opposed ... laws against ALL dogs/ owners/breeders" are the wrong way. Nick

I agree, but Pit bull owners try to enlist ALL dog owners to protect their breed riddled with misdeeds by their owners and breeders.

Define misdeeds.
In doing so, they offer no way to reason and police the guilty and problem makers, they simply appeal in many ways trying to save their breed, yet offer NO way to protect the public from the evil doers.

Life is a dangerous affair. For example, thousands of children die each year from drowning, mostly in swimming pools. Thousands more are crippled for life, or suffer brain damage.
There's no way to fully protect the public from DANGER.

I have no idea as to whom or what you're referring to when you use the term "evil doers."
If it's the people who irresponsibly own or breed pit bulls, why would you expect them to help out here???
since they have successfully pooled the cavalry, but still have not solved the reason why people are still upset, the people upset understand racial discrimination is not a cool thing.

Neither have gun owners. How do you feel about that?
So they enact laws against dogs in general because NO ONE has come up with a way to stop pitbull maulings of people and other dogs.

Yes, the typical knee-jerk reaction to any perceived "problem" is to pass more laws, especially members of the "reality-based community."
If Pit Bull people would do something more proactive to stop these things, it would be easier to support anti-pit bull measures.

A lot of pit bull people are their breed's worst enemy. So why would you expect them to cooperate in their own demise?
By supporting pit bulls, we are selling out our own breeds.

No, we're not. We're standing up for the dogs themselves. The dog isn't the problem. Their owners and breeders are.

Just like guns aren't the problem; their irresponsible and criminal owners are.
The irresponsible and/or criminal owners/breeders of pit bulls should be punished, not the responsible and law-abiding pit bull owners.

Why would you want to punish, say, Elegy, along with Michael Vick?
But what people are doing is saying the Pit bull is REALLY nice.

But they are really nice, when bred properly, and handled properly.

Why would you even say something like that?
DON'T touch them, while the evening news nightly provides a preponderous evidence that the problem still continues.

About 12 people a year die from dog bites. *12.*
Well over 1000 children alone die each year from drowning.

And about 4 youths (17 and under) die each day due to firearms.

As a gun owner, can't you see how hollow your argument sounds to responsible pit bull owners?
You're lost your perspective, Diddy.
If we defend the pitbull, we lose ground on the slippery slope of credibility.

I won't try to speak for anyone else, but *I* defend the pit bull because their dogs. Period. And magnificent ones, to boot.
Put Bull people need to police their own breed, get pitbulls that are dangerous off the streets, out of the hands of people who are causing the problems and help the police shut down dog fighting rings.

Then why not call for just that, instead of a ban on the breed?

I have no problem getting in the face of an irresponsible pit bull owner/breeder, and neither should you.
Only then, once the pitbull people have accomplished this (after all, they want no laws against pitbulls-so they need to do this themselves) can the public feel safe.

Pit bull people can't do this all by themselves, because a lot of the pit bull people themselves are the *problem,* not the solution.

That is, heavily punish DOG owners, not BREEDS, for any injuries or loss of life caused by their DOGS. Precisely like you would punish them if those injuries were caused by those same owners' guns.
I think protecting pitbulls endangers every other breed.

And I think that not protecting DOGS from HUMANS endangers us all.
I am not opposed to banning Mossoler breeds simply because of the magnitude of damage they are capable of and the types of people attracted to them and I don't see any progress being done to stop any of it.

Yeah, I hear you.
But you're wrong.

Handsome Jack Morrison
Good news about Iraq is apparently a "problem" for Democrats. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/30/AR2007073001380.html

"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide is a small price to pay to bring U.S. troops home."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWNlZmY1NzBhMDk4NTU3ZGJhYTZjMDdjZGJiMjFjZmQ =

"Shooting Michael Moore," a new documentary. Yo! Judith! Payback's a ***, eh? http://www.shootingmichaelmoore.com/about/index.htm
"the.longest.username.availa...@gmail.com"

Unless I'm mistaken, those opposed to BSL are also opposed ... laws against ALL dogs/ owners/breeders" are the wrong way. Nick

I agree, but Pit bull owners try to enlist ALL dog owners to protect their breed riddled with misdeeds by ... Bull people would do something more proactive to stop these things, it would be easier to support anti-pit bull measures.[/nq]I'd be open to any suggestions on what more proactive things can be done then. Many already work towards educating the public on the situation. I do my own part in that. I've educated individuals in pet stores with new pit bull puppies on the proper ways to raise their new dog. What really needs to be done is the existing laws need to be enforced. I read so many news reports of dog bites where the dog was not rabies vaccinated, and consequently was not registered with the state.

That spreads beyond breeds, it is a common trait in dog bite cases of all dogs, because it is a common occurrence when dealing with irresponsible owners. Solve that problem, and you will find a way to penalize irresponsible owners, who are largely the problem in dog bites. Non compliance of existing licensing laws is a huge problem.
By supporting pit bulls, we are selling out our own breeds. But what people are doing is saying the Pit ... this (after all, they want no laws against pitbulls-so they need to do this themselves) can the public feel safe.

How exactly should civilians pit bull owners police the low life thugs and other forms of trash who are responsible for most of the pit bull attacks you hear about in the news? Personally I stay as far away from them as possible. Perhaps the existing authorities should police their existing laws instead of making more that they won't be able to enforce anyway. You think the people who don't license or vaccinate their current pit bulls are going to care that it is illegal for them to have them? No, they are going to keep them until either someone complains, in which case they get another equally macho breed from the list of legal breeds, or until their dog is involved in an incident, in which case you still have the dog bites occurring. It doesn't solve the problem.
I think protecting pitbulls endangers every other breed. I am not opposed to banning Mossoler breeds simply because of the ... the types of people attracted to them and I don't see any progress being done to stop any of it.

So because low lifes are attracted to powerful breeds, you are OK with banning them. When they can't get their kicks with pit bulls they will just work their way down the breed ladder of strength, they may reach a breed you care about quicker than you expect. You accuse anti- BSL people of not fixing the problem, yet your solution just pushes the problem under the rug until the media take note of the next breed.

Nick
"(Email Removed)"
(Email Removed) spoke these words of wisdom in
So because low lifes are attracted to powerful breeds, you are OK with banning them. When they can't get their ... problem, yet your solution just pushes the problem under the rug until the media take note of the next breed.

Perhaps if all power breeds were banned except... those with CGC, or TT, (and microchipped to prove it) I doubt the thugs would bother. Thus having one would be cause to stop and investigate. If you can prove responsible dog ownership and good temperament, as well as training, then there isn't an issue. It would make it easier to weed out the good ones from the bad ones.
I still recall though, a person who had been on my want to buy a puppy list for NINE years. When I contacted them and told them I was planning a litter, they were excited. Home visits (in California) showed they had several pit bulls. I opted to scratch them from consideration.

Of course there was protest. Her pit bulls were the gentelest sweetest, most wonderful dogs evah. I didn't say that home was not suitable for dogs, it just wasn't suitable for MY dog.
6 months later, this person, knowing the breeding hadn't happened yet,contacted me, She had been out of contact, because her pit bulls for some reason turned on her, one almost scalped her, and the other one ate off her foot.
She's STILL in rehab. She said no more power breeds ever. Can she still have a puppy.
I've seen the arguement over and over how MY pit bull would not ever...

Just as Kelly (culprit) prosetylized how fantastic pit bulls were for years, and then last year, she was in trouble with the law with pit bull aggression issues.
People like Kelly (culprit) who are so wreckless with their dogs just because they want to blindly wish away any responsibility. I don't have a problem with ELEGY having them. I feel her responsibility is real, and knowing what she has is well grounded, and precautions are taken.
And then there are people like Paul who thinks power breeds won't do things like that simply because he doesn't want them too is just plain scary. There are many MANY people like that out there.
And then there are the people running around the streets with their big bad dawgs, see you walking your dog, jump out, let their dog attack yours, and jump in the car with their dog after it's thoroughly whomped.. and drive off.
I DON'T have an answer. But it's got to stop.
Lets just ban the whole hip hop culture.
"(Email Removed)"
the problem under the rug until the media take note of the next breed.

Lets see.. Outlaw media coverage of dog fighting and dog attacks? will that make the problem go away?
If just one child is mauled, ask that mother if it's ok, because the dog is friendly, it just had a bad owner.
Show more