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I'll repeat once more! Is this what you did to ... of avian intelligence exist! No wonder Alex died so young.

What you are describing is a death due to prolonged mental stress. fine. Typically, when an animal, human or otherwise, is under chronic mental stress,

No, it is not fine, as the type of stress Alex was subjected to is not comparable to anything else that an animal may encounter in nature.
Usually stress means fear, hunger, uncertainty, noise, many other environmental factors. A 30 year rigorous regiment of learning to think abstractly, admionistered from the earliest age, is a stress factor different than anything a parrot can encounter and there is no way to judge how the creature will react to it (that is long term effect).
In this case a long term consequense is apparently untimely death, or that is the suspicion.
I am certain that if it were a wild-caught bird that were subjected to Dr.Pepperbergs regiment of 8 to 12 hour per day mental exercise, not a human imprinted bird, you would have observed some more evident signs of distress. I suspect a wild caught bird would defend itself from the "abuse" or would have sucumbed/expired much earlier.
M.J.
we observe manifestations selected from several dimensions of
it

And a bunch of top national avian specialists could not ... cause of death has been identified, therefore all the speculation.

Is it not too early to expect a cause of death announcement? sharon

I'd think it was too early. They haven't had time to get the lab tests back or any other forensics done.
James F. Mayer
President
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Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma /
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Bull crap. Tell that to a squirrel that is trying to get to some bird food that some human is trying to make squirrel proof.

Tell that to a human POW who is being interrogated hours upon hours, daily, for many weeks, and finally breaks ... messing with his brain, through sustained mental stress combined with sleep deprivation finally took its toll, and caused utter breakdown.

I doubt the sleep depravation or any other stress of which you are attributing to his demise. I keep my birds up late because they are in the same room as my work station at home. they seem to be none the worse for the wear. The bird would have turned into an utter terror to get near.
We are talking human brain here, not parrot.

And you are attempting to attribute human characteristics to a bird.
Alexe was in a way "interrogated" many hours a day for many years. It is ridiculous to even think that this lifestyle had no effect upon him.

How many other parrots have done to them what you are ascribing to this bird and have out live their care takers? Every captive or pet parrot, every day, goes through un-natural behaviors just to exist and seem to come out just fine if they have a knowledgeable and trusted caretaker.
Of course the hypothesis that he was mentally worked to death is just that a hypothesis, but since no cause of death has been identified it is as good as anything else, perhaps even most plausible. M.J.

They haven't had enough time to get their lab results back. You are jumping to conclusions on facts not in evidence.

James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control E-Mail (Email Removed)
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma /
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Tell that to a human POW who is being interrogated ... is as good as anything else, perhaps even most plausible.

After all, Alex was part of an ongoing mental experiment to test the limits of avian intelligence. The experiment ended ... from a scientific perspective. The African Grey subject among many other things learned to count to six, or seven. M.J.

So? there are other non-primates that can count even higher. Counting didn't seem to affect them. What is this big brouhaha about counting anyway? I'd think that problem solving would be a much more difficult task like the Quaker I was referring to previously and conferring his needs and desires to his human caretaker in human language and putting different thoughts together to get that accomplished. He knew what "Jimmy" and "Freddy want" would do and what "Freddy want a cracker" would get him. He put them together to coherently and in the proper sequence to get his desired outcome. I'd call that a bird training his human. We humans don't speak parrot very well.
James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control E-Mail (Email Removed)
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma /
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Of course the hypothesis that he was mentally worked to ... many other things learned to count to six, or seven.

I'll repeat once more!

You can repeat it until the cows come home but that doesn't make it true and they are probably not reading this group, so your rants are not being heard. You are just screaming into a full gale.
Is this what you did to the poor creature, Ms Irene Pepperberg?

Rant on if you need to clear your mind.
Have him worked to death by your research?

Rant some more if it will help.
8-12 hours a day, every day, of gruelling mental exercise, just to find out where the limits of avian intelligence exist!

We do the same thing with our children and our mentally challenged in school but that's somehow different.
No wonder Alex died so young.

There are humans that die young too from things that have gone un-noticed for years too but that is, somehow, different to you. Maybe they will come up with just why he died after all of the tests are in but you want to rant on about facts that are not in evidence to push some political agenda you might have. You probably won't be satisfied even then because you have an axe to grind and accuse the labs and whoever else is involved in a cover up to hide the truth.
Both you and Brandeis University should be ashamed of yourselves!

No, you just want to justify your preconceptions and your personal views by taking advantage of any problem that arises from any animal research.
James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control E-Mail (Email Removed)
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma /
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
What you are describing is a death due to prolonged mental stress. fine. Typically, when an animal, human or otherwise, is under chronic mental stress,

No, it is not fine, as the type of stress Alex was subjected to is not comparable to anything else that an animal may encounter in nature.

Neither is talking in human language.
Usually stress means fear, hunger, uncertainty, noise, many other environmental factors. A 30 year rigorous regiment of learning to think ... encounter and there is no way to judge how the creature will react to it (that is long term effect).

Really? Problem solving is something parrots don't encounter every day?
In this case a long term consequense is apparently untimely death, or that is the suspicion.

That is YOUR suspicion with a lack of credible evidence to back it up other than your theory that may be proven false as the forensics are conducted.
I am certain that if it were a wild-caught bird that were subjected to Dr.Pepperbergs regiment of 8 to 12 ... of distress. I suspect a wild caught bird would defend itself from the "abuse" or would have sucumbed/expired much earlier.

Your suspicions and speculations don't seem to be supported by the evidence so far. You want to rant on about something you have no evidence that supports your assertion.
It seems that you want to stir people up and start some sort of campaign against the researchers and the university to satisfy some inner need of yours.
M.J. we observe manifestations selected from several dimensions of

measurable behavior and condition. A trivial and incomplete list might ... care and play time a parrot could ever hope for.

James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control E-Mail (Email Removed)
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma /
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
(snip)
No wonder Alex died so young.

There are humans that die young too from things that have gone un-noticed for years too but that is, somehow, ... axe to grind and accuse the labs and whoever else is involved in a cover up to hide the truth.

The data likely don't exist but I'd like to know the mortality rate of 31 yo AG parrots. I think it's safe to assume it is non-zero and not just because of Alex.
sharon
Of course the hypothesis that he was mentally worked to ... is as good as anything else, perhaps even most plausible.

No, it is not "as good as anything else". Well, maybe it is. Let's apply your standards of plausibility: I think you, , snuck into the lab and killed Alex. .max did you suffocate him or break his neck?

Maybe something or someone else sneaking into the lab scared Alex to death. Could have been strange or loud noises too. One may never know unless he and the lab were being recorded 24/7 with audio.
James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control E-Mail (Email Removed)
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma /
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
For, example, a regular human brain MRI shows anatomy, say a tumor, lesion, etc, (necropsy would show that), but it takes a live PET scan to show if the organ is functioning properly.

And Alex is no longer a live PET. :-(
Francis
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