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(Email Removed) (Judith Althouse) wrote @storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
Marcel, No, I do not want her to lie about her opinions when it comes to Cesar or anyone else. She could have written a simple critque as she did without linking multiple negative articles about him. It was a little overkill IMO.

I hihly doubt she was the one that placed links to those articles about him on the page containing her review. That would be the people that published the article on the web in the first place.
I think it was his book cover with the red slash and circle that I found a little childish and ... about her talents and less about why she doesn't like Cesar. She seemed threatened by him. I don't know why.

It's simple. In her opinion, Cesar's method is barbaric, and his book doesn't really provide any techniques that give instruction on how to replicate his method. In addition, he frequently uses a method (Alpha Roll to establish dominance) that, if performed by someone who does not know dog (s) very well, has the very real possibility of getting the person seriously injured if they try it on the wrong dog.

Marcel and Moogli
in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
I agree, Judy, if she is as great as everyone here says she is why would she find it necessary ... and let us judge for ourselves which methods we prefer. To do something like that, to me, is very unprofessional.

Yes. Because we can only give positive reviews of Cesar's method. Anyone who disagrees with his method must be wrong and is obviously bashing him.

She was asked to do a review of his book, and did so. No bashing was done, only a critical review.

Marcel and Moogli
I find her need to trash Cesar to such an extent rather pitiful. This is not about Cesar.

Interestingly enough, for all of the Cesar bashing that is out there, I have yet to see him bash a single person. I have mixed feelings about him and what he does (but I have those about just about everyone! ;-D), but at least he only stands up for himself rather than try to criticize others with hysterical language.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
I have mixed feelings about him and what he does (but I have those about just about everyone! ;-D), but at least he only stands up for himself rather than try to criticize others with hysterical language.

I think it would be great if you all could be specific about whose writing is "hysterical", and why you think that's the correct way to characterize it.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
I continued to read an editorial that she had written trashing his book in a magazine called "Bark".

The "she" in this case appears to be Jean Donaldson, not Pat Miller.
She went on to list any group or any one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar.

Incorrect. She gave a short list of sources that support her position. That is pretty standard.
She also listed every negative item written about him.

Incorrect. She made a few criticisms of his methods. I don't know about you, but I don't especially want to live in a world where critique is a bad thing.
I find her need to trash Cesar to such an extent rather pitiful.

That's one thing that experts *do*. They discuss topics of importance in their field of expertise. Training methods and philosophies would be one of those things I would expect someone like Jean Donaldson to write about.
Generally speaking I don't care for politicians, religions, and in this case dog behaviorists that bad mouth others of their like.

You have a funny and by funny, I mean completely wrong-headed idea of what constitutes "bad mouthing."

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
I think it would be great if you all could be specific about whose writing is "hysterical", and why you think that's the correct way to characterize it.

Good luck with that. The original post didn't even properly identify the actual author of the article!

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
I think it would be great if you all could be specific about whose writing is "hysterical", and why you think that's the correct way to characterize it.

"hot" words like "choking", "slamming", etc get used. I've read a lot of bashing of various sorts on a lot of different webpages and forums. Would inflammatory be a better word than hysterical? I think the emotion is essentially the same.
I'm not sure who "you all" is though, since I believe I'm the only one who used the word hysterical.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
"hot" words like "choking", "slamming", etc get used.

You're wandering into "some say" territory - never argue like a Republican! The article in question didn't use "choking, slamming, etc."
The few anti-Cesar articles I've read, including this one, have been detailed in their criticisms and pretty
level-headed, I've thought. But I don't hang out on AOL "boards" and so I don't have opportunity to confuse Empress Sandy with Jean Donaldson (perish the thought).
The most histrionic, irrational writing I've seen about all this is actually Judy's post claiming that Pat Miller wrote a vicious anti-Cesar screed.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
You're wandering into "some say" territory - never argue like a Republican! The article in question didn't use "choking, slamming, etc."

I didn't say it did! I said there are many critics, and some hysterical language used. I do private training work in Pat's area. Let's just say that I've been very busy.
But I don't hang out on AOL "boards" and so I don't have opportunity to confuse Empress Sandy with Jean Donaldson (perish the thought).

While much "public opinion" bashing has come from AOL CBB-ers, I have read a number of "professionals" using non-professional language as well. I have clicked on provided links, and don't save that sort of thing in bookmarks (I have too many!), so I can't cite them at the moment.
The most histrionic, irrational writing I've seen about all this is actually Judy's post claiming that Pat Miller wrote a vicious anti-Cesar screed.

I won't disagree with that. Judy is a pretty mixed bag of emotional posts. I don't read the majority of them. She jumps around a lot. Reminds me a bit of Leah. I'll go look at the Pat Miller site.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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