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The most histrionic, irrational writing I've seen about all this is actually Judy's post claiming that Pat Miller wrote a vicious anti-Cesar screed.

Okay. I Googled for "cesar," then "milan" on the Peacable Paws website, and I got nothing. As far as I can tell, Pat Miller did review Cesar's book (Cesar's Way), but the review isn't on her website.
http://www.thebark.com/ezine/literature bookReviews/DogWhisperer.html

I think Judy does not understand the purpose of a book review. I also suspect that she did not actually read the book review.

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
Okay. I Googled for "cesar," then "milan" on the Peacable Paws website, and I got nothing. As far as I can tell, Pat Miller did review Cesar's book (Cesar's Way), but the review isn't on her website.

It's a link within a link, but you're right. And I read the review (and was reminded that I had read it before). Nothing inflammatory about it, and I do agree that the book is not a "how to achieve this". It's merely a book about "him". I wouldn't call it a dog training book as much as a short biography.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
It's simple. In her opinion, Cesar's method is barbaric, and his book doesn't really provide any techniques that give instruction on how to replicate his method.

Hmmm. Does anyone else find these two points somewhat contradictory? "Gee, I think it's barbaric to pillage and unconscionable that this city- sacking barbarian doesn't present detailed, step-by-step Pillaging for Dummies (TM, most likely) instructions."
I wonder whether the absence of "how-to" in Cesar's presentations is a deliberate attempt to short-circuit imitation, or if he's one of those people who have difficulty articulating the underlying process? IME, you see this frequently in situations where skilled trainers are called upon to instruct others in their methods. In the various horse disciplines, certainly, some very capable riders and/or handlers have little understanding of HOW they do what they do, or how to coach others to the same level of skill.
I wonder whether the absence of "how-to" in Cesar's presentations is a deliberate attempt to short-circuit imitation, or if he's ... little understanding of HOW they do what they do, or how to coach others to the same level of skill.

I think (1) that it is that he is skilled enough (2) that he has difficulty explaining the basic steps of what he does.

(1) I have never seen the show, only read reviews and descriptions. (2) I have also never seen any say that he doesn't have dog-training skills. They may not agree with his methods, but they never say that he can't train dogs.

Marcel Beaudoin and Moogli
I don't think she should have even mentioned his training methods, on her web site; whether she likes him or not; she should have stuck to her own training methods.
Yes, I do feel most dog trainers maintain a calm, assertive energy of authority; the ones I have met do. The audience he is trying to reach, though, are not dog trainers or experienced dog handlers.
I don't think she should have even mentioned his training methods, on her web site; whether she likes him or not; she should have stuck to her own training methods.

Luckily for us, the rest of the world doesn't think like you. In order to improve methods, most professional trainers accept criticism of their techniques. They then take that criticism, see if it is a valid critique of the method, or simply a critique of the person, and then try to improve their techniques.

Marcel Beaudoin and Moogli
I don't think she should have even mentioned his training methods, on her web site; whether she likes him or not; she should have stuck to her own training methods.

Would you like to quote where on her website she (presuming you mean Pat Miller) criticized Cesar?

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
The main value I see in Cesar's message is his ... values don't involve depleted uranium. To reply, unleash the dog.

== I don't think she should have even mentioned his training methods, on her web site; whether she likes him or not; she should have stuck to her own training methods.

I suspect she put the book with the red circle/slash to contrast her methods with the ones that many novice dog people believe - based on the publicity surrounding him - are THE ONLY way to train dogs.
Yes, I do feel most dog trainers maintain a calm, assertive energy of authority; the ones I have met do. The audience he is trying to reach, though, are not dog trainers or experienced dog handlers.

I was using "maintain" in a different sense - I'll rewrite this to say "Don't most other dog/people trainers recommend the same thing?" (calm assertiveness) The people who he works with usually have anything but, and he emphasizes to them that they need to be calm and assertive. He has that demeanor, he doesn't (can't?) explain how to do it, but he effectively models it.

FurPaw

My family values don't involve depleted uranium.
To reply, unleash the dog.
I think it would be great if you all could ... why you think that's the correct way to characterize it.

"hot" words like "choking", "slamming", etc get used. I've read a lot of bashing of various sorts on a lot of different webpages and forums. Would inflammatory be a better word than hysterical? I think the emotion is essentially the same.

Well, I've certainly seen him use the equivalent language, if that's the determining factor for "bashing"
"Bribe with food" "beg" are the same kind of loaded words, and he's comfortable using those.
I'm not sure who "you all" is though, since I believe I'm the only one who used the word hysterical.

But you used it to describe his detractors..so it would be helpful to specify just who you meant. Otherwise, you're using the very same type of language you were accusing his detractors of using. Tricky thing, that.

Tara
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