Hi Y'all,
I checked out Pat Miller's web site to learn about her. I was especially interested in what her thoughts were on the class Diddy mentioned for reactive dogs. I was not exactly sure what the term meant. My theory was confirmed. It is for dogs that can be or are dog aggressive. She has impressive credentials. I read what she had to say about dogs in general and found myself agreeing with what she had to say.
Then out of the corner of my eye I see Cesar's book "Cesar's Way" with the traditional red circle with a slash thru the middle over Cesar's face. My understanding of that symbol is just say NO to in this case Cesar.
I continued to read an editorial that she had written trashing his book in a magazine called "Bark". She went on to list any group or any one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar. She also listed every negative item written about him. I find her need to trash Cesar to such an extent rather pitiful. This is not about Cesar. Yes, I have acknowledged that I am a devotee of his. That is not why I am writing this. She seems to have it together as a dog trainer/behaviorist etc. I reserve my final opinion until I see her in action but I like what I read. I agree with her. She seems to be good at what she does.
Why did she take so much time and effort to bad mouth him or anyone. I read her article it did not sound as if she felt that she was saving the world from him IMO. I could understand if she felt like he was a danger to the dog world and it's owners.
Generally speaking I don't care for politicians, religions, and in this case dog behaviorists that bad mouth others of their like. I much prefer that she/they play up their assets and she definitely has them instead of wasting so much effort tearing down someone else. She could have been critiquing any other dog person and I would have found it just as distasteful unless of course they were promoting cruelty and abuse.
Be Free..Judy
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in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
Hi Y'all, I checked out Pat Miller's web site to learn about her. I was especially interested in what her ... case Cesar. I continued to read an editorial that she had written trashing his book in a magazine called "Bark".

If saying that his book tells you what to do, but gives no real instructions on how to do it is trashing him, then I guess she trashed him. Most people would call it a simple review of his book.
She went on to list any group or any one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar. She also listed every negative item written about him.

Could you link me to that page(s)?? On the page of the review, there are a bunch of links below her article, none of which are written by her.
Why did she take so much time and effort to bad mouth him or anyone. I read her article it ... him IMO. I could understand if she felt like he was a danger to the dog world and it's owners.

She was probably asked to write a review article, and she did. If she doesn't like his book or his methods, what is she supposed to do, llie??
She could have been critiquing any other dog person and I would have found it just as distasteful unless of course they were promoting cruelty and abuse.

Keep in mind that, to her, his methods are barbaric and have no real redeeming value.

Marcel and Moogli
On 30 May 2007 00:37:01 GMT, Marcel Beaudoin
Could you link me to that page(s)?? On the page of the review, there are a bunch of links below her article, none of which are written by her.

"DOG TRAINERS, EXPERTS CONCUR:
Cesar Millan's philosophy is not ours."
con-cur
1. to accord in opinion; agree

So she's a liar, to boot, because there are at least as many experts and dog trainers out there who think Millan's philosophy is just fine.

It's the same bogus appeal to authority that the "global warming" fanatics use, when they claim that there's a "consensus."

There is NO such consensus.
And experts and dog trainers most certainly do NOT concur with Pat Miller.

Handsome Jack Morrison
Prouder than ever to not be a member of the "reality-based community"!

And another one bites the dust! Australian scientist changes his mind about "global warming": http://mises.org/story/2571
Yo! Melinda Shore! Read this article! She's talking about *you.* http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=510
Diddy,
I forgot to add to my lengthy post that I do hope Paul and Muttley get to take advantage of her wisdom. I would like to attend a class of her's myself. I am not down on her. I just think she seemed to be obsessed with hating Cesar.
Be Free..Judy
Marcel,
No, I do not want her to lie about her opinions when it comes to Cesar or anyone else.
She could have written a simple critque as she did without linking multiple negative articles about him. It was a little overkill IMO. I think it was his book cover with the red slash and circle that I found a little childish and overdone.
I still say I would like to read more about her talents and less about why she doesn't like Cesar. She seemed threatened by him. I don't know why.
Be Free..Judy
Could you link me to that page(s)?? On the page ... below her article, none of which are written by her.

"DOG TRAINERS, EXPERTS CONCUR: Cesar Millan's philosophy is not ours."

Oops! Wrong page.
http://www.sfspca.org/Viewpoint/1030.shtml
And it's actually the SFSPCA (I presume) uttering those words.

But the link to it is on Miller's web site, so presumably she "concurs" with them.
Heh.

Handsome Jack Morrison
Prouder than ever to not be a member of the "reality-based community"!

And another one bites the dust! Australian scientist changes his mind about "global warming": http://mises.org/story/2571
Yo! Melinda Shore! Read this article! She's talking about *you.* http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=510
Hi Y'all, I checked out Pat Miller's web site to learn about her.

This was http://www.peaceablepaws.com/?
Then out of the corner of my eye I see Cesar's book "Cesar's Way" with the traditional red circle with a slash thru the middle over Cesar's face. My understanding of that symbol is just say NO to in this case Cesar.

Clicking on that picture takes you to an article by Jean Donaldson.
I continued to read an editorial that she had written trashing his book in a magazine called "Bark". She went ... prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar. She also listed every negative item written about him.

This one?
http://www.4pawsu.com/cesar.htm
I find her need to trash Cesar to such an extent rather pitiful. This is not about Cesar. Yes, I ... dog person and I would have found it just as distasteful unless of course they were promoting cruelty and abuse.

Interesting how two people reading the same thing can see it so differently -
I didn't think she trashed Milan; I thought her expressions of disagreement with his methods were stated quite professionally. (Some of the links that followed her review were less professional statements, but she didn't write them.) She has a lot of company in the animal behaviorist community (Jean Donaldson, Patricia McConnell, Nicholas Dodman...), and I am sure she has plenty of detractors as well.
The main value I see in Cesar's message is his reiteration that the human needs to maintain a calm, assertive "energy" of authority in dealing with a problem dog. He doesn't tell HOW one does that - it's not easy to describe - but he does it himself and gives people something to model. But don't most other dog/people trainers maintain the same thing? Know what you want the dog to do, be firm, be clear, be consistent, don't ask the dog's permission, don't show fear or anxiety or nervousness?

FurPaw

My family values don't involve depleted uranium.
To reply, unleash the dog.
Handsome Jack Morrison (Email Removed) wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
"DOG TRAINERS, EXPERTS CONCUR: Cesar Millan's philosophy is not ours."

Oops! Wrong page. http://www.sfspca.org/Viewpoint/1030.shtml And it's actually the SFSPCA (I presume) uttering those words. But the link to it is on Miller's web site, so presumably she "concurs" with them. Heh.

But just saying that is not the same as listing "...any group or any one of prominence in the dog world that did not approve of Cesar. She also listed every negative item written about him."

As for what is on the SFSPCA's website, just because she agrees with Jean Donaldson's article does not also mean that she has any control over what other things that the SFSPCA has written on that page, or that it was even there when the article was first written.
That being said, she (Pat Miller) does not agree with Cesar' method. However, by linking to JD's article, she also presumably agrees with JD's statement that "...less invasive (i.e. without pain or force) techniques must be competently tried and exhausted before more invasive techniques attempted."
She (JD) is not totally discounting Cesar's method. She would rather it not be chosen as the first method of treatment.
Marcel

Marcel and Moogli
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