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The average person thinks pit bulls are scarier looking than eskies.

LF, here's a picture of one of those really "scary" pitbulls. His name is Petey. Scary, huh? The "average person" thinks there are little green men from Mars among us, too. What we really need is legislation to ban "average people." :)[/nq]
LOL! I'll second that!!

Debbie the Dogged das at spamcop dot net
"Poodles are space aliens who think they've disguised themselves as dogs." - Paghat the Ratgirl
Here's some eye candy to indulge in while you're simmerin'.

http://community.webtv.net/staffymom/Winston
http://community.webtv.net/staffymom/Nikki
Titles are not up to date, but you'll see dogs that are affected by BSL on a regular basis, since I frequently trial in Washington.

Debbie
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The average person thinks pit bulls are scarier looking than eskies.

LF, here's a picture of one of those really "scary" pitbulls. His name is Petey. Scary, huh?[/nq]
LOL... here's an even scarier one - Piglet!

Better run and hide from the evil pit bulls before they get'cha!

Tracy
As a nerd, it seems to me the problem here is "meaningful" rather than "data collection."

exactly. unfortunately, i made that stipulation in my first post but not in the second one.
Not directly relevant to this discussion but what the heck - I thought it was interesting.

it was. thanks! that dovetails with why breeds like Sibes are often on the "do not insure" list.

shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette>> http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

Creative lives are made up of minutes and minute amounts of work do add up.
Julia Cameron
what about the dogs in the shelters now? they will either be euthed or sold to research labs for $6 each.
what about the dogs who are dumped or seized as "dangerous" even though they're not? people dump dogs for the most idiotic reasons- everything from "my new girlfriend doesn't like him" to "she doesn't match my new furniture" so don't give me the line that they somehow "deserve" to die.
they may or may not have died in the shelter anyway. now it's a sure bet.
so you are advocating the deaths of dogs.
and come on- would you want to have to muzzle your dog every time you took her out in public? at least she's "not friendly to strangers". my dogs are both obscene attention whores.
Unfortunately, true. And what conditions would those be?

Living with idiots, abused, improperly cared for, no training...

so why are other breeds living in the same conditions not a risk?

there used to be an eskie who boarded at work (he's since been euthed). he had been badly abused by his original owners, had gone into rescue, and been rehomed. he was the meanest ***. you could not touch that dog without a muzzle. to walk him outside to potty, you had to open the door, jump back, and herd the dog outside, then herd him back inside. he was a dangerous dog. he was, what 20 pounds or something like that, but when you're facing a "smiling" 20 pound dog, you're quite sure they can do some serious damage if they want to. especially to a kid.
Assuming that only pit bulls are "dangerous" under certain conditions ... it. Teaching it that aggression toward people is NOT ACCEPTIBLE.

Yes, I agree.

and this should go for ANY BREED. that's what i don't get. i love this ontario bill- it states that fighting PIT BULLS is illegal. not fighting dogs. when somebody (i forget who now, maybe the ospca) suggested to michael bryant that this clause be extended to cover all breeds of dogs, he said it was not necessary. how does that make any sense?

my best friend is a pit bull.
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
>And then there's training the dog to bite the
>measurement instrument and whether that correlates to how hard a dog >would bite in a fight or attack, etc.
that alone may be an insurmountable obstacle to ever getting a meaningful measurement of bite strength.
Not necessarily. If you could train all the subject dogs to bite with the same method (since we can train dogs to do things like hold dumbbells in a particular way I don't think it would be all that hard and of course it's also been done with rats!) then you would have a comparable measurement across breeds. It might give you some idea, at least, of maximum strength.
from what i can tell, Dr. Brisbin is generally considered to be a reasonably reliable expert.
I only know of him as a geneticist and Carolina Dog expert. Doesn't mean he doesn't know more than I do about bite strength, he probably does. But I'd rather hear from a bioengineer.
heh. true! and, i suppose i may see an inordinate ratio of small, not-so-bulky Pit Bulls. the ones i tend to run into locally are, if anything, much lighter in bone and musculature than the typical local Labs.
Sure. But the heads are much less variable, from what I see, and also the primary way to identify a dog as a pit on sight. Although there is variation within the breed how could there not be considering how common the breed is and how seldom it is bred by responsible breeders I still think there's something distinctive about their heads and that it is related to function.

Melanie Lee Chang > Form ever follows function. Departments of Anthropology and Biology >
University of Pennsylvania > Louis Sullivan (Email Removed) >
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What we really need is legislation to ban "average people." Emotion: smile

LOL! I'll second that!!

It is moved and seconded that the following resolution be adopted:

"Average people" will heretofore be banned from public places, from breeding amongst themselves, and from voting in local and general elections. If such average person is ever found with a ballot in his possession, he shall immediately be arrested, his property confiscated and sold at public auction, and force ably sterilized at a veterinary clinic chosen at random by the Chairman.
This meeting is now adjourned.
Drive safely, folks!

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
Mr. Sharansky, ease my doubts:
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/Sharansky.htm
: >And then there's training the dog to bite the : >measurement instrument and whether that correlates to how hard ... then you would have a comparable measurement across breeds. It might give you some idea, at least, of maximum strength.

but you're still not going to take into account intention and the emotion (i'm not sure that's the right word) that goes into the power behind a bite.
i wonder what schutzhund/ring decoys have to say about breed/bite power. they'd be interesting people to get an opinion from. still wouldn't be "scientific" of course, and would be limited in breeds, but it would be interesting.

my best friend is a pit bull.
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
but you're still not going to take into account intention and the emotion (i'm not sure that's the right word) that goes into the power behind a bite.

Well, after just having posted that I think that there are some serious difficulties in getting "meaningful"
information about bite strength, I should add that I do think that more data are always better than less data and help us to ask better questions.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

"(Social Security) will be bust in 10 years" George Bush, in 1978
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