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in thread "Tee" (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
really? try this site: http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html tell us how well you do.

I don't like the pictures on that site as they're not very representative of Boxers at least. The real Boxer ... that nowadays in some byb gene pools. Boxers look much more like the Bull Mastiff pictured regardless of ear type.

But the boxers bred by BYB's and doing the biting ARE probably EXACTLY the type of breeding and owners that would select one of those bad dogs. I still don't think the misidentified dog therory is as prevalent as the PB people want it to be.
I don't like the pictures on that site as they're ... more like the Bull Mastiff pictured regardless of ear type.

But the boxers bred by BYB's and doing the biting ARE probably EXACTLY the type of breeding and owners that ... dogs. I still don't think the misidentified dog therory is as prevalent as the PB people want it to be.

I'm not sure what your first sentence means. The misidentified dog theory is prevalent in a number of breeds, including Boxers, but how prevalent is something unknown.
I know for fact that alot of shelters intentionally mislabel Pit Bulls and AmStaffs as Boxers to keep from either A) having to put them down to abide by BSL or, most commonly, B) to raise their adoption rate because a person might be more likely to adopt a no-stigma-attached Boxer than a stigma-attached Pit Bull.
I also know that in many shelters Boxer or Boxer mix is the favorite label to ascribe to a dog who looks remotely bullyish when the shelter staff doesn't really know what it is or can't take the time to try for accuracy in guessing the breed(s). Same mindset as all those Lab mixes out there. If it has a slightly pointy nose and is of medium build then it must be part Lab.
So while its reported that media and other people responding to bite incidences often mislabel bullyish looking dogs as Pit Bulls its certainly fact that many shelters, at least in the US, mislabel Pit Bulls as other breeds, most notably the Boxer.

Tara
there's no reliable way to measure bite strength, and there's no reason to think that a Pit Bull's bite is any more powerful than that of any other dog of similar size.

Well, that's not really true. If you know something about functional anatomy, and you get a chance to look at a pit's skull vs, say, a Lab's, it's difficult to say that they don't have a more powerful bite. The size of their jaw closing muscles is really quite impressive, and the shape of the skull also reflects a powerful bite. On a live dog, the breadth of the skull, the shortness of the face, and the absolute size of the masticatory muscles demonstrates the same thing.

I do believe that there are differences in bite quality between pits and most other breeds of the same size. As much as I don't want to demonize pits, there's really no way to deny what they were selected for, which is gameness and a desire and ability to cause damage to other dogs.

That said, I think BSL is total ***. If you're a three-year-old kid and a dog gets a hold of your face, is isn't really going to matter much whether it's a Lab or a pit you're going to sustain some severe damage. My brother was bitten in the face by a miniature Dachshund when he was four, and needed plastic surgery. It was a very, very bad bite, the dog's teeth met inside my brother's cheek, all that good stuff.

A responsibly-handled pit is no more likely to harm a person than any other dog. Legislation should target irresponsible owners, not the dogs. All the bozos who can't have pits anymore in Ontario are just going to go out and get Rotts instead, and you know, they're big dogs with big powerful mouths.

Melanie Lee Chang > Form ever follows function. Departments of Anthropology and Biology >
University of Pennsylvania > Louis Sullivan (Email Removed) >
yes, or pit bull mixes, how much pit bull is ... a boxer/lab cross apart from a pitbull. I'd hope so.

really? try this site: http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html tell us how well you do.

I failed! I picked out the American Staffordshire Terrier. Point taken.

LF
in thread "Tee" (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
I'm not sure what your first sentence means. The misidentified dog theory is prevalent in a number of breeds, including ... certainly fact that many shelters, at least in the US, mislabel Pit Bulls as other breeds, most notably the Boxer.

True, deliberately to SAVE dogs. have done the same myself. But we did NOT mislabel the breed to the adopters. We told them what they had. It simply stayed on the records that was what we had.
But statistics are weilded by the Save the Pit Bull people just the same as PETA weilds it's own statistics, and the NRA creates it's agenda. All have a bit of truth, but paint a mural of misconceptions that suit their own purposes.Let's face it. I am a life member of the NRA. But I don't subscribe to ALL the agenda that they promote. And was a staunchly non-supportive of their choice for president. I have donated to their legislative endeavors many times, and during the campaign I let them talk to me for 40 minutes, until they pinned me down, I was not EVER voting for their choice for president. I was simply letting them spend their resources talking to me, while they tried to finagle more campaign money out of me.

I pay the NRA to play the statistics game and continue to paint the mural. In the long run, I believe in SOME of the agenda of the NRA. But I'm also not blind that statistics are used and abused, and only the sides of the arguments that the NRA wants to promote are brought forward.
Same with PETA, and same with the Pit Bull people. And although I understand why they are arguing, I don't for a minute BELIEVE their arguements. Nor do I think their arguments should be supported. They figure screaming louder and trying to strike fear into other breed people to unite to save their breed, and claiming misrepresentation when it suits them, and twisting population saturation regarding the disproportional numbers of Pit Bulls in the news, and in the same arguments using rarity of the breed (it's so rare that AKC won't register it HAH) in the same text just to prove a point just doesn't wash.
I am not going to be bullied and shamed into supporting a breed just because "if there was BSL, I would lose clients in my classes", or my breed will be next on the list and will rise to the top. I still think the breed, based on it's own tendencies to keep on, keeping on, and the strength, ability and will of the dog to destroy once a savage attack begins is worthy of BSL
in thread "Lemony Fresh" (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
really? try this site: http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html tell us how well you do.

I failed! I picked out the American Staffordshire Terrier. Point taken. LF

Well the American Staffordshire terrier is a RENAMED AKC version of the pitbull.
Here is a breed description. That is a VERY bad Staffy, because he's over 80% white, at least based on the picture. And HOW can you tell the bone size in a picture?
According to the description, except for bone size and color, the ONLY difference between the two is the registry that they are registered with.

Staffy's and Pit Bulls are only semantics.
The American Staffordshire is a very muscular, stocky, yet agile dog, and is extremely strong for his size. He has a broad, powerful head, short muzzle, and very strong jaws. The ears are generally cropped, though this is optional. The eyes are round and black. The teeth should form a scissors bite. Its coat is made up of thick, short, shiny hair. All colors are admissible, but dogs must not be more than 80% white. The tail tapers to a point. The ears are erect and docked slightly. Classed by AKC as "American Staffordshire Terrier" and by UKC as "American Pit Bull Terrier." The American Staffordshire Terrier, are generally of larger bone structure, head size and weight then their cousins the American Pit Bull Terrier.
in thread "Lemony Fresh" (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
really? try this site: http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html tell us how well you do.

I failed! I picked out the American Staffordshire Terrier. Point taken. LF

you didn't really fail. It was a trick question, you should have known this was a staffy, because they wanted to trick you. What you should have asked... what registry was it registered with.
How could you know?
I predict dobermans will be the next breed of choice for idiots (and I'll qualify that by saying, obviously, not exclusively) in Ontario.

This what happened in Winnepeg (not Dobermans, but other "tough" breeds). Bite statistics didn't decrease, they just moved. I've heard that Winnepeg has since moved to dangerous dog bylaws similar to that of Calgary (the owner is held severely responsible) and bites have since decreased. Unfortunately, Winnepeg hasn't repealed their BSL.
Ontario had public hearings. Almost every public dog service group spoke out against the proposed BSL, but the government's mind was obviously alrady made up. The province of Nova Scotia had similar hearings when an MLA introduced a similar bill before the legislature. He later retracted his bill and admitted that he was wrong. Nova Scotia has since been investigating the Calgary model of dangerous dog legislation.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
It would behoove you to use the proper terms if you're going to persist in trying to convince the OP you know something about the dogs. staffy=Staffordshire Bull Terrier. You're talking about the wrong breed of dog.
Debbie
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